Problems with my Playing Style and the Binding

[rickenbrother]

I agree with Joshua. You might be tensing up some muscles that force your arm into the edge of the bass when you play. Can possibly cause problems with circulation, carpel tunnel syndrome, etc.

[henry5]

I actually have the opposite problem. If I play a bass with a forearm contour I find it excruciating.

[rickaddict]

Smart. Simple. Smooth. Sexy.

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[rickaddict]

And about resting arms on basses...I am of the opinion that in order to innovate, and/or develop one's own unique style, one should not pay too much attention to those who preach about "proper technique."

I'm sure glad this guy didn't:

[jps]

I used to own an Exploiter bass, they really are quite comfy to play. They probably have the biggest case outside of a double neck!

[heinpete]

I don't have a problem with the Binding. As I now play RIC basses for more than 30 years, my forearm has a nice dent in it that rests perfectly on the body edge!

[T.A.R.]

I don't have a problem with the Binding. As I now play RIC basses for more than 30 years, my forearm has a nice dent in it that rests perfectly on the body edge!

[winston]

I don't have a problem with the Binding. As I now play RIC basses for more than 30 years, my forearm has a nice dent in it that rests perfectly on the body edge!

Too funny.

[cassius987]

And about resting arms on basses...I am of the opinion that in order to innovate, and/or develop one's own unique style, one should not pay too much attention to those who preach about "proper technique."

It's not about proper technique, it's about not damaging your arm over time. Cutting off circulation in the same spot for several hours over many years can cause problems. I've heard of tendonitis and neuropathy; mostly reported on TalkBass.

I'm the last person who's going to get on a forum and tell someone to be proper. I play a fretless Ric bass with only a bridge pickup and round wound strings at most of my gigs... that's hardly proper.

[FretlessOnly]

And about resting arms on basses...I am of the opinion that in order to innovate, and/or develop one's own unique style, one should not pay too much attention to those who preach about "proper technique."

It's not about proper technique, it's about not damaging your arm over time. Cutting off circulation in the same spot for several hours over many years can cause problems. I've heard of tendonitis and neuropathy; mostly reported on TalkBass.

I'm the last person who's going to get on a forum and tell someone to be proper. I play a fretless Ric bass with only a bridge pickup and round wound strings at most of my gigs... that's hardly proper.

Citing Entwistle as someone who rested his arm on the upper bout and claiming that "proper technique" would have somehow diminished his creative impact to both the concept of bass and all of music is just plain missing the point. You can have poor technique and change music or you can have impeccable technique and never be but a blip on a radar screen no one ever notices.

In the case of resting the forearm on the bass, it's not about being innovative or not innovative; it's simply a matter of playing the odds and taking some precautions as to how your body is going to respond after 10, 20, 30 or 40+ years of playing. If you don't rest your forearm on the bass, you are reducing your risk of circulation problems, and potentially carpal tunnel syndrome (because of the generally non-neutral wrist position that is often part and parcel of "right arm sag" (my term)). You know, or you may not.

To me, having suffered a debilitating ulnar nerve injury in 2001 that caused me to stop playing for six months; caused the loss of all my jazz contacts bcause I couldn't gig; and loss of the ability to play in a local symphony orchestra two weeks before a big spring concert, I take good technique seriously. I can assure all of you that's it's possible to recover, but one needn't associate technique that helps to reduce the chance of bass-related injury to "playing by the rules," or "being non-innovative."

Innovation is in the execution of the sound. The longer you can actually create sound, the longer you can be innovative.

I would add that I explained all of this to Joshua about 2 years ago, and he sort of balked at it. Now it seems that he has adopted it. Not because I said it, but because it just plain makes sense.

For reference, here is how my right arm is positioned when I play:

[cassius987]

As for adopting these methods myself, it's been gradual as I have had to make it work with my own style that looks a bit more like Entwistle's at times. But I fully believe I should be taking care of my body while I play, because I'd hate to go through what John did. My arm moves around a lot when I play too, so that keeps me from resting it on one spot as much. As a bassist I'm self taught (but not in music theory) so I know I mix a lot of methods into my technique as I see others use them.

I would also add that, before you disrespect "proper" anything, you should have some command of it. I get bothered by people who write off methods that they haven't even studied--proper, or "improper" as well. Once you learn a rule or a style, you have every right to judge its usefulness and break it... but at least go a little further than reading about it before knocking it. In the lab, any time I pick up a new assay, I have to run it a couple of times exactly like the original author would have to get a feel for it. Later, I can tweak it to my liking, but I can't just wing it like that the first time.

[1STNAMEBASSIST]

I think that part of the issue is that you are using a pick. When I use a pick which is rare, I tend to rest my forearm on the edge of the bass. To hold my arm away from the bass when using a pick makes it difficult for me to pick properly, or feel comfortable with my playing. I play 95% fingerstyle, and whether I hold the bass high or low the edge of the bass does not contact my forearm at all.

[henry5]

John, looking at that picture if I hold my arm like that I can hardly move it the next day (I'll add that I have both cerbical and lumber disc problems and associated nerve irritation). I think the difference in individual physiology is something to take into account here. I'll also add that I mainly play with a pick; lucky, because these days playing fingerstyle for any time causes me immense problems. If I do play fingerstyle I actually find the Entwistle approach by far the most comfortable in terms of negating my nerve pain.

[rickaddict]

I think the difference in individual physiology is something to take into account here.

I agree with Shaun. I think different bodies call for different playing positions.

I'm not very flexible. When I'm holding my bass, my arm wants to extend rearward from my shoulder. I think I'd be more in danger of injuring myself playing in the position demonstrated in John's photo than playing the way I do (which is resting my forearm on the upper body edge.) In fact, last winter I wouldn't have even been physically able to hold my arm forward like that. I had some sort of painful shoulder strain that lasted a few months that barely allowed me to play bass at all. When I could play...the farther back I held my arm when playing, the longer I could play.

And "resting" is probably not be the best word to describe the interface between my bass and my arm...I don't really have any weight planted on that top edge. My arm tends to float back and forth between the bridge and the neck depending on the tone I'm looking for. I use the top edge of the bass, both pickup surrounds, the upper edge of the bridge pickup, the button poles on both pickups, and the strings themselves as reference points when I play. I don't think any circulation is being cut off.

And now that I've re-read this thread...I'd like to apologize to Joshua. My initial post with John Entwistle's photo reads like an attack on him and his earlier post. Sorry Joshua...I should have worded that in a less smarmy way! Such are the dangers of non-face-to-face communication. If we were in the same room, I would hope that I would have made my point more smoothly.

[FretlessOnly]

Yes and fair enough, we are all different. My summation point would be that no matter how you hold and/or play an instrument, there are risks for repetitive motion-related injury. My point about keeping the right arm off the bass isn't so much about cutting off circulation at the point of contact, but about the non-neutral wrist position that is then required to reach the strings (which would be different from pick use vs. pizzicato). Any and all advice on positioning is hereby declared to be subject to everyone's own personal playing situation and in consideration of what one thinks is best for oneself in light of their personal understanding of their body.