330: any reason why it wouldn't be a good first electric?

[funkapus]

Hi folks. Thanks to everyone for your replies, and especially your welcoming words. A few (or more than a few) specific things to reply to, bundled together so I don't make a zillion posts :

If you can, you also may want to try out some other models, such as a 360 or a solid-body 620. They aren't inherently better (or worse) than a 330 and have many similarities, but you may find one of them grabs you even more than a 330 does.

Yeah, I hear you. Sometimes it's hard to find the guitars to play, though. I was in a place earlier today that had a 340 and two 360/12's, which I can't really afford. So I played the 340 -- I liked the feel quite a bit, but found that when strumming I frequently clipped the middle pickup with my pick on the upstroke. I'd like to try more, but they're often not so easy to find . . .

While Ricks have a reputation among non-Rick players as being one-trick ponies, I think most (if not all) of the people here would agree that this is undeserved, and that they are much more versatile than people unfamiliar with them tend to think. And yes, you can play lead on a Rick! While a Rick probably wouldn't be a good first electric for a metalhead or would-be shredder, that doesn't sound like you.

I understand re: the versatility. These videos caught my eye (and ear):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e62KNyvdjm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4EULNbZ3Mw

Welcome, Chris! I'm in Alexandria. I recommend the turquoise 360 that is for sale at Action Music in Falls Church. You can even take the orange line there... all about Metro myself

Thanks for the heads up -- I've been there once, went there to try what they had when I was shopping for my last acoustic. They're apparently closed this week, but I'd be happy to go there and check that 360 out -- but are you sure they have it? It's not listed in their online inventory.

You know you're going for that 330 --- the only question is what color ?

The two that appeal to me the most are fireglo and midnight blue. I like bright colors -- I really adore some of the refinish jobs the Jam had on theirs.

My other prime candidate for a first electric would be a Telecaster as they're incredibly versatile (I've played both jazz and punk gigs with mine), made like a tank (you would need to run over one with a Hummer to make do serious structural damage), easy to set up, readily available and relatively inexpensive.

If you are considering your FIRST Electric guitar.. I'll second the idea of considering a Telecaster. Also great guitars. and currently there is a lot of buzz about the Squire Classic Vibe 50's Tele.. that can be had for a few hundred bucks.. new! If money is an object at all.. you can't go wrong with a CV50 Tele.

It's funny you both should say that -- the other guitar I was most strongly considering was an American Standard Tele, both because they seem to be quite versatile and because one of my favorite guitarists who doesn't play a Rick (Steve Cropper) made his bread and butter with a Tele for a long time.

Have you been playing acoustic guitar for a long time?
If so, the Ric is a PERFECT choice for electric. You'll have an eye-catching guitar that responds in a way you're used to with your acoustics but can chime, cry, and grind in virtually any shade of electric tone you want.

I dunno what a long time is, but I'm certainly not *that* proficient. I wish I was, but after noodling around for years and entertaining myself but not really improving, I'm now getting lessons that are really helping me move forward.

I have to disagree with other members here and say no, a Rickenbacker anything may not be the best introduction into the world of electric guitar. However, there's no reason you shouldn't purchase one once you have become accustomed to or decide you like playing electric.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on why you think it might not be the best way to go?

[jdawe]

So I played the 340 -- I liked the feel quite a bit, but found that when strumming I frequently clipped the middle pickup with my pick on the upstroke.

There was another recent thread discussing the difference between the 340 and the 330, in which several people made similar comments about the middle pickup on the 330 interfering with their picking:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=402342

While I expect that it would just be a matter of getting used to it and that you'd adjust pretty quickly, I think you'd be better off going for a 330: they are cheaper, usually easier to find (the 340 is a discontinued model; of course, you happen to have one available locally) and sound just as good. On the 340 the middle and neck pickups are wired together so you still only have three configurations (bridge alone, all three pickups on, and middle and neck only), and while it reportedly sounds good the sound isn't necessarily better than that of a 330, just different.

Rick 12s are wonderful guitars and if you continue down this path you will eventually be overcome by an overwhelming urge to buy one (I gave in a few months ago and bought a 620-12). There is no other way to nail *that* sound. However, a six-string is more versatile and I think would be a much better choice as your first electric.

Telecasters are fine guitars in their own right, and the lower-priced ones give you great value for your money. However, once you get up to the price range of the American Standards I'd rather have a Rick for only a little more money. But that's just me -- YMMV.

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

Funkapus, the reasons I wouldn't advise starting with one are:

1. Rickenbackers aren't made like other guitars; the necks, bodys, action, etc all make for a unique instrument. Which means, you have to become accustomed to each aspect of the guitar. When I got my 360, I couldn't just pick it up and play anything on it immediately. I had to grow accustomed to it, which takes some time and practice. Once you're used to it, you have to do the same thing with other guitars. A lot of players can go from playing a Les Paul to a Strat with ease, but it's a little trickier going from a Rickenbacker to anything else.

2. Versatility - The first thing you're going to wanna do when you get an electric is find out what sounds you can get. While a Ric is versatile, and can get good sounds for blues, jazz, classic rock, etc, it's definitely called a "one-trick-pony" from other players because if you're lazy (Not saying you are!) or unwilling to experiment, you will wind up with just the classic Ric sound - It's a damn good sound! However, you'll want a guitar more forgiving for different tones.

3. A 330 is a Semi-Hollow guitar, and semi-hollows aren't for everyone. It could be that you like hitting a distortion pedal now and then: Well, if you're not prepared, you'll get a nasty feedback that sets off house alarms! Semi-hollows, for me, aren't upfront enough, and are harder to control with feedback and added overdrive. You have to consider that Roger Mcguinn, Peter Buck, and many other guys used various studio techinques, like loads of compression! If I had a DynaComp back when I had my 360, I may not have sold mine.

4. There are other fine Rics to consider: The entire 600 series is incredibly underrated. They don't produce as much feedback, get the same Ric sound, and are more comfortable to some people.

Other than that, I suggest you look up: "Rickenbacker 360 - Lead Guitar" on Youtube for an objective point of view on hollowbody Rics. Remember that everyone has their own opinion, and only you can decide for yourself!

[Dasher]

Buy with your ears Chris. All guitars sound different relative to each other. I'm lucky enough to own a Les Paul and a Strat as well as my Ricky and several others. If you play a chunky necked Gibson acoustic then you'll like a Les Paul, but theyre heavy and imo sound best when cranked up, not necessarily great at home. My Strat is a '93 Ltd American standard and is by far the most relaxing electric I've ever owned - simply sublime to play, but if the house were burning down and I could only carry one, it wouldn't be the Strat. My first electric was a 60's SG and I really liked it - a good first electric - sold that when I bought my Ricky back in '75. I've had a couple of Telecasters and have to agree with others, I think that they make a good first guitar (but so does a Strat). The best suited Telecaster I had for a single instrument / first guitar was a Mexican one with a third pickup - a humbucker. This had everything that you'd look for in a first, versatile electric - easy to play, easy to get a good sound, not amp critical, happy at low volume, gorgeous maple neck and low bucks too - sold that when the LP came along.

I like modern 330s although I've only ever owned the one vintage '64 RM. I have played a few though, and will buy one shortly - a plain MG 330. They're nice to play, a little quirky, very well built, relatively easy to get a good sound from, relatively amp neutral (but they do benefit from a good one - be it valve or transistor). The only thing that I'd say against them is that f you are already gigging, and you have to learn about tone and volume and everything else that comes with driving the instrument as opposed to the instrument driving you, then the Ricky should be the next one you buy and probably not the first.
If you have the time to learn to play it and learn the feel of it then the Ricky will reward you in spades - I'll never sell mine -ever! - so you know which one would leave the house with me now!

The big thing about a Ricky is that if you like it, you'll have it for a long long time -don't know why but it just seems to happen that way.

My second favourite is my 2000 model Gibson ES 175 - I've been playing 40 years, have owned and played this since 2003, and am still learning how to get the best out of it - so that's the other end of the scale -stunning sound but difficult to nail!

[electrofaro]

My advice: play a balanced diet. Buy a Rick as your first electric and try to play other brands, too, so that you can keep your perspective on why Ricks are so terrific!

...or go work for another brand - it keeps things in the right perspective

A 330 would make a fine first electric. Switching from my superjumbo is easy - except the 330 plays easier than my superjumbo, even despite the narrower fingerboard! As for sound, the 330 can make nice sounds, just depends on the settings!

[JakeK]

I've often thought a Ric 330 or 1997 is just like an Epiphone Casino...capable of doing all the same things and all the versatility of a Casino.

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

Buy with your ears Chris. All guitars sound different relative to each other.

But, you can't buy a guitar just based on sound. If you're not comfortable with a guitar, it can leave a pretty sour taste in your mouth.

[miltric]

But, you can't buy a guitar just based on sound. If you're not comfortable with a guitar, it can leave a pretty sour taste in your mouth.

I agree. A few years ago I went on a guitar-buying-and-trading binge, and ultimately realized that for me, feel is REALLY important. BTW, I ended up with a 330FG and a Tele Deluxe as my six-string electrics. So, I guess I'd echo most of the advice you've been getting on this thread. Somebody else also mentioned, I believe, that the 330 feels natural if you've been playing acoustic exclusively for a long time. This was also my experience. Good luck with your search!

[Kees]

[quote="Ain'tGotNoPokemon"]Funkapus, the reasons I wouldn't advise starting with one are:

4. There are other fine Rics to consider: The entire 600 series is incredibly underrated. They don't produce as much feedback, get the same Ric sound, and are more comfortable to some people.


This goes to show how wonderfully personal these experiences are. I sold my 620 MG because it just didn't feel as 'right' as my 330 and 360's (in particular when sitting down). Regarding the handling of feedback with semi-hollows Rick's, I would suggest listening to Johnny Marr playing his 330 JG back in the 80's as well as Peter Buck, who (still) uses his 360 JG throughout the R.E.M. sets as his main guitar. I have never seen these Masters have any problems with feedback on stage.

However, if you wish to 'do' Santana, Mark Knopfler or guns and roses, you'd better go for something else than a Rick. Please don't.

Just try to find them in a store somewhere and try them out (and, indeed, don't go for a 3-pu version: I also hit the middle pu all the time on my 370-12); the only opinion that really counts is your own.

Best wishes,
Kees

[electrofaro]

However, if you wish to 'do' Santana, Mark Knopfler or guns and roses, you'd better go for something else than a Rick. Please don't.

Why? Any good reason you can play that on any semi-hollow or solid body except Ricks?

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

This goes to show how wonderfully personal these experiences are. I sold my 620 MG because it just didn't feel as 'right' as my 330 and 360's (in particular when sitting down). Regarding the handling of feedback with semi-hollows Rick's, I would suggest listening to Johnny Marr playing his 330 JG back in the 80's as well as Peter Buck, who (still) uses his 360 JG throughout the R.E.M. sets as his main guitar. I have never seen these Masters have any problems with feedback on stage.

However, if you wish to 'do' Santana, Mark Knopfler or guns and roses, you'd better go for something else than a Rick. Please don't.

Just try to find them in a store somewhere and try them out (and, indeed, don't go for a 3-pu version: I also hit the middle pu all the time on my 370-12); the only opinion that really counts is your own.

Best wishes,
Kees

Marr used his Rics for pretty clean parts. Peter Buck, my hero, doesn't use high gain distortion with a Rickenbacker, either. His dirty parts come mostly from his Vox and/or a Rat pedal. You'll notice live he's a good distance away from his amps, too. In the studio, it's a different matter, where you can leave your amp in one room and play guitar in the other.

But that's BS, if you don't mind me saying, sir: You can play Santana, Mark Knopfler (Who's best work is CLEAN), Guns and Roses (Izzy played mostly hollowbody guitars) on any Rickenbacker. Have you ever used your neck pickup? With the fifth knob up, you can get warm tones for distortion, jazz, and anything else for the most part.

[electrofaro]

Have you ever used your neck pickup? With the fifth knob up, you can get warm tones for distortion, jazz, and anything else for the most part.

Totally agree with that!

Neck PU on my 340 with blend knob all the way closed, amp gain on 5.5, tone on 10, is what I like a lot in sound if it needs to be rough!

[Kees]

[quote="Ain'tGotNoPokemon"][quote="Kees"]
'But that's BS, if you don't mind me saying, sir..'

I do mind. I thought we were exchanging opinions in a civilized forum. In my opinion, the use of 'BS' is never appropriate.

Best wishes,
Kees

[funkapus]

I phrased my original question in the way I did -- about the 330 specifically -- because it seemed most useful for the forum if I put the question in some other way than "help Chris go guitar shopping." I wanted the thread to be useful to others down the road. But that said, I'm going to veer into more individual territory, because I had a perplexing experience yesterday.

Yesterday I went to a couple of places and demo'd guitars. In one, I tried an Am Std Tele through three amps (Blackstar HT Studio 20, Vox AC-15, and a Fender Blues Jr.). The Tele sounded like I expected, which was very good. I didn't do a very good job of demo'ing the amps -- I should have messed with the tone controls more -- but the Fender Blues Jr. seemed to want to be played at a louder volume, which I wasn't that keen about given how I'll be playing.

At the other store, I played a couple of Rics through an AC-30C2. I wanted to play them through an AC-15, but they didn't have one in stock. Anyway, I really enjoyed playing the 330 -- it felt good and the sound was really nice -- but I struggled a bit because I didn't really understand the controls. They're labelled (Treble, Bass) + (Volume, Tone), but the volume controls seemed not to be freq. band based but rather pickup-based, which seems odd. Anyway, I did really like playing the 330. But then I did something a little dumb. I wanted to get the 330 in Midnight Blue, because I really like that finish; but it's hard to find *anything* in MB. I had resigned myself that if I did get a 330, I was either going to be getting it from a far-away store that had one, or waiting a long time for a special order to come in (most stores tell me 12-24 months for Rics). Well, this store had a 340 12-string in Midnight Blue at a really, really good price -- only $200 dollars more than the 330 6-string. I wasn't looking at 12-strings at all because, like I said, first electric guitar, wanted to keep it simple, want something reasonably versatile, etc. And the other day I tried a 340 6-string and I found myself often hitting the middle pickup on the upstroke when strumming rhythm. But, you know, it was there, and it was (relatively) cheap, and it was gorgeous, so I decided to try it. And I fell in love with the sound. Seriously, it made me get goosebumps. I told my gf when I got home that it made me feel squooshy. And maybe I was playing differently from the other day's 340 because it was a 12-string; but if I was hitting the middle pickup frequently, I didn't notice. I didn't even think about that until after I'd left the store. It was glorious.

So now I'm sitting here thinking "I really, really liked that sound; and I'll probably never get a chance to pick up a brand new RIc 12-string at that kind of price again." But I wasn't looking for a 12-string, I was looking for a good guitar to serve as a first electric to try different music styles on (blues on a Ric 340/12?); and I don't know anything about the stuff you need to know with a 12, like how to string them or tune them. It doesn't much make sense. Except I really, really liked how it sounded, and it was a great price, and it was gorgeous. But/but/but/but . . . . .argh. I've been going over it for almost 24 hours now.



EDIT: meant to put this in earlier. Re: my confusion over the controls on the Ric, I've looked around online but haven't found a good written description of their function. I"m sure there's one with the guitar; but I don't have one so I don't have access to a manual/whatever. Does anyone know of something out there I can read on this? I've googled, searched here, and on the Rickenbacker website, but come up with nothing.

EDIT2: Of course, minutes after posting the previous edit, I found the owners' manual on the official site. Sigh.

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

'But that's BS, if you don't mind me saying, sir..'

I do mind. I thought we were exchanging opinions in a civilized forum. In my opinion, the use of 'BS' is never appropriate.

Best wishes,
Kees

My formal apologies, sir. Perhaps you shouldn't take it so harshly, though.

Funkapus, if you like the 12 string, then that's a whole different story. If you want the 12 string, there's no reason you shouldn't get it, because it's a whole different animal. I would suggest paying close attention to the different between hollowbody and solidbody Rics, though - The 600/12 series is more upfront and kind of Chorus-esque (Though it can sound just like the Byrds, if you like!).