Paul Kantner, 12 string sound in Jeff Airplane

[idealassets]

In my quest to locate 12 string material I recently made the observation that Paul Kantner is most often playing a Ric maple guitar, and a 12 string at that. I was an Airplane/ Starship fan for decades and never previously knew this.

I am interested in finding out if he played anything noteable with his 12 string. It seems to me that it is all mostly "fill in sound" with rhythm chord strumming.

Can anyone in this forum point me to any material that has some really good 12 string work by Mr Kantner, either in the group, or solo? I am just itching to find some good Airplane/ Starship type songs to do on 12 my string, either acoustic or electric.

Much appreciated,
Craig

[Clint]

Some might say that Paul Kantner's rhythm chord strumming does fall under the heading of really good 12 string work.

[idealassets]

I have been giong through Airplane/ Starship/ Kantner material to find anything that really stands out. A few things come close ie Blues From An Airplane.

As a contrast at the same time Roger McGuinn was comig out with some great material on 12 string.

So I'm still looking for a few songs where the Airplane 12 string does a little more than strum in the song. The reason I am doing this is to find some Airplane material to fit into my song list. Evidently no one on either the Guild forum or Ric forum plays much at all by the Airplane. But I plan to, even if I have to ad lib. Meanwhile I still looking for material, and open to any suggestions.

Thank you,
Craig

[Clint]

Why not try to write a few of your own songs? It really isn't as hard as some people may think. You may surprise yourself. They don't have to be the greatest songs ever written, besides, everything sounds good on a 360/12.

[idealassets]

Why not try to write a few of your own songs?

I have partially completed a dozen songs. I composed tham all on an acoustic 12 string, I am now attempting to bring about some intro and lead parts to make them "other than strum" songs. Sometimes the creativity comes easily, but it also is a bit of work to fill in the gaps. It will be some time before I will be posting any recorded songs. The music comes first. I began playing serious guitar 1 year ago, before that I made my money on drums. But not many drummers are composers or song writers.

I want to have a list of good standards that I normally do, just to keep things flowing along. Most of these are songs that I find worthwhile to do, such as Turn Turn Turn & Angel From Montgomery, the Bonnie Raitt version for example.

You kow when you connect with a listeing audience or not, and some songs seem to always work, while others songs mysteriously are quite bland.

Back to Paul Kantner, this intro is the type of thing that I am attempting to find some more of, it is soon to become a 12 string intro. I want to add at least 2 Airplane or Starship songs other than White Rabbit and Somebody To Love. I believe that this is the first one I will try, due to the intro along with the timing changes:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QI6qPuU48Q

I'm still looking for a few more songs.

-Craig

[brian_l]

I always liked Kantner's jangly 12-string playing on the Surrealistic Pillow track "D.C.B.A.....25. The rest of the slower songs have Jorma's acoustic out front in the mix.

[jfine]

"Blues From An Airplane" is a good one, and check out the rest of the album it's on, "Jefferson Airplane Takes Off". The 12-string lead work (and there's lots of it) is actually Jorma Kaukonen on a Fireglo 360-12. Judging from the pic on the back of the album, Paul Kantner played a Guild acoustic 12-string with a DeArmond soundhole pickup, Jorma played the Ric, Jack Casady played a Fender Jazz Bass, and Grace Slick wasn't even in the band yet--their original female vocalist, Signe Anderson, was on that album. Marty Balin does almost all the male lead vocals, and the drummer is Skip Spence, who wound up playing guitar in Moby Grape. It's their first album, and it's very much folk-rock, almost like the Byrds with a female vocalist. I understand that Jorma played the Ric 12-string because he'd been used to playing acoustic, and he could fingerpick the 12 more like an acoustic. I bought the album in the summer of '66 when it came out, and in December of '66 I saw them open for the Beach Boys at the San Francisco Civic Auditorium. They had just recorded "Surrealistic Pillow", their second album, but it hadn't been released yet. By this time, Paul was playing his Ric 360-12, Jorma was playing a Gibson ES-345 (through four Twin Reverbs!), and Grace, with that laser-beam of a voice, was in the band. Totally different band from the "Takes Off" version--way more rock than folk; they knocked me (and everybody else) out, and blew the Beach Boys right off the stage.

[idealassets]

I bought the album in the summer of '66 when it came out

I also bought this album in summer of 66', just barely a teenager at the time. But so many of my rock albums, including "Takes Off", have not lasted to the current day. That photo on the back would be a good one to see, and would explain a lot about the sound. Also it answers a lot of my questions about who was playing what in the bad. By now I can usually detect Jorma's style, even on a 12 string in the Airplane.

I am quite impressed with Paul Kantner's 12 string chords in Sunrise/ Hijack (1970). It really brought out the best of the 12 string sound, whereas some 12 string arrangements in the songs just sounds like "fill in" sound.

Craig

[jfine]

The photo on the back of "Takes Off" appears to have been taken on a TV studio set--they're all arranged in a semicircle on a curved platform. It's very early and may well be from some local San Francisco TV show. As I recall (it's been decades since I've seen it), Marty Balin is also playing guitar, but due to the angle, I can't tell what it is otherr than that it's a dreadnought acoustic, looks like it might be a Gibson.
There's a new '60's rock show making the rounds on public TV. I just saw it the other night--it features '60's acts such as Roger McGuinn (without the Byrds, but with Ric 370-12RM), Paul Revere and the Raiders (who have no original members left except Paul), the Kingsmen, and others, including the current incarnation of Jefferson Starship, of whom the only original Airplane member left is Paul Kantner. They did "Somebody To Love" and "White Rabbit", and absolutely tore it up.Their current female vocalist (Diana Mangano, I think) could give Grace Slick a run for her money and then some. The first few notes and I thought it was Grace, and I was trying to figure out how Grace had managed to not age a day since the '60's, with blonde hair yet! I believe Grace is retired from the music biz now, but this girl sounds a lot like her. The band's good and solid, if not quite as adventurous as the Airplane were. The bass player's no Jack Casady, but then, nobody else is either!

[chucksimms]

I saw the Kantner/Starship show when it came to town last year and I hope it was better when you saw it. Horrendous and laughable were my impressions- he played his Ricks at '11' through a Fender twin that were piercing and dominated everything else. The only musical moments were when he left the stage. The Ricks looked good though.

[idealassets]

The only musical moments were when he left the stage

I would hate to think it was that bad, then again Paul Kantner is 70 and David Freiberg is about 74.

I saw "Starship" at the Masonic Temple in Detroit in 1974. It was exceptionally good with Craig Chaqico, Johny Barbata (drums), Papa John (Fiddle), Grace, Marty Balin & Paul Kantner (Ric, rhythm). The light show was colorful but not psychadelic, a vast improvement!

Even though bad I will be looking to see the "Reformed Starship" in a live show in order to watch that guitar work.

Craig

[idealassets]

Check out this Kantner acoustic guitar work on Sunrise/ Hijac:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVmkdP9hpBg
At 2:17 it comes in quite nice with a "lead" 12 string part. I can't tell what make of guitar it is, but looks like a Guild, with the logo blocked out. Quite nice in my opinion.

CG

[caliban335]

Paul & Jack

[tomt3]

In that picture, there is what appears to be some black tape on Kantner's rick. I assume he put that on himself. Rick wouldn't have issued any models with those "stripes", would they?

[idealassets]

This is an interesting shot of Jack Casady in unison with Paul Kantner. Usually Jack and Jorma hung tight in the group. Those stripes might be something that Kantner put on there for appearance. I am also curious as to what it could possibly be.

Craig