OK to mix string sets on Rickenbacker 12-string?

[stsang]

Hi Everyone,

Recently, one of my Rickenbacker 95404 strings (12-string set) snapped so I decided it was time to replace the whole set. I didn't have a spare 95404 set to hand, so I put on a D'Addario EXL150 regular light 12-string set. I know some people love these strings, but I was bothered by their very bright, metallic tone on my 12-string. So I did something I hadn't tried before. I had some leftover Pyramid flatwound strings from a previous experiment (which didn't turn out too well). I replaced the low E,A,D,G D'Addario strings with the Pyramid ones. This resulted in a hybrid set of 8 D'Addario strings and 4 Pyramid flatwounds. To my surprise, the result was very pleasing and I've kept them on for the past two weeks and the strings have settled in rather nicely. Neck tension appears to be the same as before I made the switch - I was able to lower the bridge a little, and intonation is (surprisingly) almost perfect. I didn't need to make any adjustments at all.

Has anyone else tried this? Did you get the same results? Would you warn me against doing this? Any advice or comment is much appreciated. Thanks!

-Simon

[Halbert]

I don't know why mixing them should be a problem although someone else might know something I don't.
I actually prefer either the D'Addarios on my 12ers to almost all other brands. I have sometimes used hybrid D'Addario sets with an .11 g and .10s on the e. I also like the Ric strings too but sometimes they are unavailable. While I have heard good things I haven't tried the Pyramids though I suspect I they would cost more and I would like them less.

[stsang]

I don't know why mixing them should be a problem although someone else might know something I don't.
I actually prefer either the D'Addarios on my 12ers to almost all other brands. I have sometimes used hybrid D'Addario sets with an .11 g and .10s on the e. I also like the Ric strings too but sometimes they are unavailable. While I have heard good things I haven't tried the Pyramids though I suspect I they would cost more and I would like them less.

Hal, thanks for the response. There has already been alot of discussion about the good and bad points of Pyramid strings on this Forum (see: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=388246 for example) so there's not much more I can add. But knowing all that, I still like the sound of the Pyramids because they help get that special vintage 60s sound - even more so than when I had the Thomastik Infeld flatwounds (which I also love). If that's not the sound you are going for, then I would avoid them. A while back, when I had the full Pyramid set on my Rick, I did notice that those strings were stiffer than other brands and it felt like they were really stressing the neck (I noticed an increased neck bow so I took them off). However, mixing the D'Addario and Pyramid sets (8-4) seems to avoid that issue. I get the smooth, sweet flatwound sound with the brightness of the D'Addarios on the octave and high B and E strings. It gives a wide tonal range and seems to work well with my 12-string. Obviously, if I start to notice the neck warping on bass side I'll take them off immediately.

Cost wise, all flatwounds seem to cost more than roundwounds. I certainly wouldn't recommend that people buy two 12-string sets and throw half the strings away (unless you've actually got money to burn)! If this experiment doesn't cause any damage, next time I change strings I may try mixing the D'Addario EXL150s with a 6-string flatwound set (like the TI jazz set). That might be a more economical way to do things.

All the best, Simon

[JakeK]

Cost wise, all flatwounds seem to cost more than roundwounds. I certainly wouldn't recommend that people buy two 12-string sets and throw half the strings away (unless you've actually got money to burn)! If this experiment doesn't cause any damage, next time I change strings I may try mixing the D'Addario EXL150s with a 6-string flatwound set (like the TI jazz set). That might be a more economical way to do things.

That always seems to be the case. I like the TI's and use them for 12-string only, because they're so expensive, and I try to change them as infrequently as possible. Being flatwounds, it sound not matter if the sound dulls.

[stsang]

That always seems to be the case. I like the TI's and use them for 12-string only, because they're so expensive, and I try to change them as infrequently as possible. Being flatwounds, it sound not matter if the sound dulls.

Hi Jake, I agree with that. In fact, as long as the octave strings don't lose their tone, having the flatwounds dull a bit probably enhances the jangle! BTW, love your user image - very cool!

[IHeartRics]

I use the D'Addario's on my 330/12 and like them alot. However twice now I've broke the G octive string and tried to replace it with "what's available in your single string box" 0.8 (same/correct gauge for the set) and the intonation goes right out the window. Gotta split a set up or completely re-string it.

[stsang]

I use the D'Addario's on my 330/12 and like them alot. However twice now I've broke the G octive string and tried to replace it with "what's available in your single string box" 0.8 (same/correct gauge for the set) and the intonation goes right out the window. Gotta split a set up or completely re-string it.

Hi Chip - same here, the G octave is the one that goes first. I guess intonation changes as the strings wear, so it really stands out if one string is brand new. BTW, your 330/12 (presumably with D'Addarios) sounds great on your Pinball Wizard video (talk about a real garage band)!

[IHeartRics]

I use the D'Addario's on my 330/12 and like them alot. However twice now I've broke the G octive string and tried to replace it with "what's available in your single string box" 0.8 (same/correct gauge for the set) and the intonation goes right out the window. Gotta split a set up or completely re-string it.

Hi Chip - same here, the G octave is the one that goes first. I guess intonation changes as the strings wear, so it really stands out if one string is brand new. BTW, your 330/12 (presumably with D'Addarios) sounds great on your Pinball Wizard video (talk about a real garage band)!

Hi Simon - the aging is a good point I didn't think of. I was under the suspicion that not all 0.8 gauges between vendors was the same and was the cause. For example, this last go-around was with an Ernie Ball single. But I think your perspective makes more sense. As for the brightness, D'Addarios are pretty bright, but my finger oils seem to dampen them quite quickly! I quit using this brand on my 6 stringers as they'd go dull too quickly on me and I'm cheap. GHS Boomers seem to do well on the 6'ers. And my cheapness is probably the culprit for the old string/G octave break/intonation problem. Thanks for the compliment on the Pinball Wizard video. Yes thats the D'Addarios. Trying to play hard like Townshend can't help string life either!

BTW, does your Ric have toasters, and if so are they 12K or 7.5K? (though from the avitar it looks like Hi-gains). I originally had 12K's in mine and it seemed even brighter and a bit harsh. I put the 7.5K and IMO, what a difference!

[stsang]

BTW, does your Ric have toasters, and if so are they 12K or 7.5K? I originally had 12K's in mine and it seemed even brighter and a bit harsh. I put the 7.5K and IMO, what a difference!

My Ric came with 12K toasters. I later swapped them out with the 7.4Ks but I'm holding on to those 12Ks! I go back and forth on the 12Ks and 7.4Ks - both are great IMHO. I agree the 12Ks sound a bit brighter and harsher than the 7.4Ks with all the guitar knobs at max, but you can mostly solve that by turning down the tone/volume controls and lowering the pickup height. My guess is that the 12Ks have a wider tonal range than the 7.4Ks and need some fiddling to sound clean, whereas the 7.4Ks just sound just great right out of the block. BTW, I noticed differences between strings much more easily when I had the 12Ks on. I thought the D'Addarios sounded very harsh with the 12Ks but that flatwounds sounded really good. Do you still have your 12K toasters?

[Folkie]

Simon,

Yes, flatwound strings do enhance jangle. Todd Bradshaw explained it to me like this: on a Rick, the flats dull the sound of the low courses and accentuate the sound of the octave strings. The result is something close to that signature sixties sound so many of us are looking for. On my 360/12 I use Thomastik Infeld Flatwounds, which are expensive but really capture that sixties vibe. They also last longer than most roundwound strings, which tend to lose their brightness over time. For the record, I used to use D'Addario XL150's on my 330/12, but have replaced them with Curt Mangan Fusion Matched Nickel Wound strings, which are closer to the gauges Rickenbacker recommends. A friend of mine, who has been playing for ages, mixes D'Addario's and Rickenbacker Compressed Roundwounds on his 370/12. So whatever works for you in terms of tone, playability, and intonation is okay.

Robert

[stsang]

Yes, flatwound strings do enhance jangle. Todd Bradshaw explained it to me like this: on a Rick, the flats dull the sound of the low courses and accentuate the sound of the octave strings. The result is something close to that signature sixties sound so many of us are looking for. On my 360/12 I use Thomastik Infeld Flatwounds, which are expensive but really capture that sixties vibe. They also last longer than most round wound strings, which tend to lose their brightness over time. For the record, I used to use D'Addario XL150's on my 330/12, but have replaced them with Curt Mangan Fusion Matched Nickel Wound strings, which are closer to the gauges Rickenbacker recommends. A friend of mine, who has been playing for ages, mixes D'Addario's and Rickenbacker Compressed Roundwounds on his 370/12. So whatever works for you in terms of tone, playability, and intonation is okay.

Robert

Good advice - thanks Robert! That emboldens me to continue experimenting with mixed string sets.

[Tommy]

With all my guitars I like to stay with the recommended string gauge. With my Ric 12 (.10-.42) that string gauge makes it hard to find a set of strings. So what I do is buy a couple of different packs of D'Addarios and take some strings from pack A, some strings from pack B until I get the exact gauge the Ric requires.

You probably say why not just buy the Rickenbacker set that has the proper gauge. Well, I used those strings once and did not like the tone. The D'Addarios, and the recommended Ric string gauge, really please me on my Ric. You guys have no problems doing your own string gauge thing?

[stsang]

With all my guitars I like to stay with the recommended string gauge. With my Ric 12 (.10-.42) that string gauge makes it hard to find a set of strings. So what I do is buy a couple of different packs of D'Addarios and take some strings from pack A, some strings from pack B until I get the exact gauge the Ric requires.

You probably say why not just buy the Rickenbacker set that has the proper gauge. Well, I used those strings once and did not like the tone. The D'Addarios, and the recommended Ric string gauge, really please me on my Ric. You guys have no problems doing your own string gauge thing?

HI Tommy, I've had no problems with getting appropriate string gauges. Most .10 gauge sets I tried have been very close to the RIC recommended string gauges.

Just to provide more context for my response, I have a modern 2002 Rick 360/12 which I got this year (my new pride and joy!). The Rickenbacker 95404 string sets you can buy now have a .46 gauge low E. I've always wondered when and why RIC changed from .42 to .46 but still .10s on top (was it for better intonation?). Does anyone else know? For comparison, the Pyramids have a .465, the Thomastik Infelds have a .44 and the D'Addario EXL150s have a .46 low E. I read on the Forum that folks had problems with the Pyramids not sitting properly on the nut, but that's not an issue for me. After an initial truss rod and bridge saddle adjustment when I first got my Ric, I haven't had any noticeable intonation issues with any of these string sets (and I have a 6-saddle bridge).

[IHeartRics]

Do you still have your 12K toasters?

I sure do! They're in the bridge positions of my 480's. Keep those 12K's as-is (no unwinding)! I love them in 6 stringers. IMO it's like either a hot rockin' toaster or a vintaged-out Hi Gain, which ever side of the fence you wish to stand. BTW, Ric HB's are in the neck positions of the two 480's.

[Tommy]

I've had no problems with getting appropriate string gauges. Most .10 gauge sets I tried have been very close to the RIC recommended string gauges.

I've always wondered when and why RIC changed from .42 to .46

Hmm, I did not know Ric has changed factory gauge from .42 to .46. If they are at .46 now, then, yeah, no problem finding a set to put on. But the gauge my Ric 12 came with on the top strings were:

.10, .13, .20, .26, .34, .42

Finding a set close to that is insane.
And then I have to buy a ton of single .10s and .13s for the octave strings. The whole process of changing strings on my Ric 12 - from buying to actual changing - is a real drag.