New vs. Old

[electrofaro]

Ivan, starting with a new guitar and slowly ageing it yourself is the best - every ding and scratch you'll remember! Neither the left-over from someone else, neither one of the factory made fakers! I quote someone I know: would you go to a car dealer and say: I would've taken it if it had been relicked! And at the same time vintage cars get such levels of "restauration" they look new!

[Ivan3000]

Good point, I don't like Relicked instruments, my hofner is naturally wearing very well, and each spot has a story. The chew mark in the back is from this little thing:

[JakeK]

The chew mark in the back...

Dude, eat a sandwich, not your bass!

[Ivan3000]

Or some savory French Onion Soup.

[JakeK]

Or:




Eat them, EAT THEM!!!

[Ivan3000]

They're yucky...I just want icecream!!!!!!

[Hotzenplotz]

About the vintage thing:

The Beatles had a song, called "Can't buy me mojo" , or similar. So far my opinion about this artificially aged theme.

[egosheep]

Ivan, starting with a new guitar and slowly ageing it yourself is the best - every ding and scratch you'll remember! Neither the left-over from someone else, neither one of the factory made fakers! I quote someone I know: would you go to a car dealer and say: I would've taken it if it had been relicked! And at the same time vintage cars get such levels of "restauration" they look new!

A factory made fake relic is one thing, but I would hardly call a vintage guitar a left-over!! Is that what V81 is? As the saying goes, "they don't make 'em like they used to!" and that certainly applies to cars and guitars.

[RIC_FACTORY]

In terms of quality of construction there is no comparison in my book. We can build guitars to tolerances barely imagined in the 1960's AND we can do it way more consistently and with much less of an impact on the environment to boot. Also, we can achieve this by lessening the risk of injury to our workers, which makes their jobs easier and keeps them happier! Happy workers result in a better end product by my way of thinking. Not to mention that if we were to build guitar necks and bodies now like we did in 1966, we would likely have way more RA returns for warped necks and cracks.

But, if you swear that your vintage Rick has better, albeit purely subjective, qualities like tone and "mojo," I won't argue with you (even though you're mistaken !)

[Hotzenplotz]

Nice lines, a joy to read! And I agree 100% with the point of view about tolerances, workers health and reproducibility of constant quality in bigger numbers of production. BTW things like the paint, the glue and so on had been improved over the years, too.

One additional question: could it be, that the aging (and playing!) of the wood itself improves the sound of a guitar over the years? I heard a lot of times that it is that way.
Beside the (for some people important and I do not want to deny it at all!) subjective feel, what is a special feature that grows by aging and it is not produceable - although some try to imitate that with that soulless "relic" error - I can not imagine an old one can sound better caused in "better times".
WHAT is the difference in construction that can justify it? At the latest if old toasters from the 60's are installed, there should be no difference noticeable. - Except it is caused in the aging of the wood. THIS would be a real reason to grab an old one.

IMHO, if there would exist any possibility to improve the sound, RIC would do it immediately, even if it costs a few bucks more - that most would pay with no regret.

I decided to give my guitar(s) the mojo by playing and playing and playing. Then it is MY mojo and not the one of some unknown person.

[Seans]

I recently looked further into my 72 4001, as it's just quiet on the bridge pup ( much more so than my 74 or 80 ), ok these do have a small magnet and they loose the magnetism too. But still not convinced this was the whole problem I tested the pot's, all were fine but the treble volume pot, this was only giving approx 80% signal on full volume. So with a new CTS pot I remove the track and replace the old one inside the original pot with the new track, so 100% signal and minimal originality damage , now we're cooking.

Right, the bass sounds different, it's louder and sounds great, but, before it had a certain something, a kind of smoother vintage sound, creamy, now it sounds new, after giving myself a hard time for a few days I decide to put the original track back in the pot, just about to start the surgery I have an idea, what if I turn down the volume on the pot to say 8 or thereabouts to make it near the original signal, Bingo!!, I have the sound back.

To conclude, I think all I have done by replacing the pot track is make the bass more like it was when it was new in 72, wood quality and moisture content aside which do have an effect, perhaps the 58 Precision you remember having that certain sound was just down to signal transfer and the fact you had to turn up the amp to get something out of the thing.

[Hotzenplotz]

Aged wiring, magnets and pots... Of course!

To play with about 80% pots open somebody told me to improve the sound, too. I alway do since I was told to do so. Combined with TI flats and toasters it offers a marvellous, old school sound!

When people hear and see the guitar they often mention that it is in an amazing condition for its age. - Well, last month it had its first birthday. Surprise, surprise!

[Ivan3000]

Nice lines, a joy to read! And I agree 100% with the point of view about tolerances, workers health and reproducibility of constant quality in bigger numbers of production. BTW things like the paint, the glue and so on had been improved over the years, too.

One additional question: could it be, that the aging (and playing!) of the wood itself improves the sound of a guitar over the years? I heard a lot of times that it is that way.
Beside the (for some people important and I do not want to deny it at all!) subjective feel, what is a special feature that grows by aging and it is not produceable - although some try to imitate that with that soulless "relic" error - I can not imagine an old one can sound better caused in "better times".
WHAT is the difference in construction that can justify it? At the latest if old toasters from the 60's are installed, there should be no difference noticeable. - Except it is caused in the aging of the wood. THIS would be a real reason to grab an old one.

IMHO, if there would exist any possibility to improve the sound, RIC would do it immediately, even if it costs a few bucks more - that most would pay with no regret.

I decided to give my guitar(s) the mojo by playing and playing and playing. Then it is MY mojo and not the one of some unknown person.

I'm pretty sure aged wood contributes to tone. Thats why some companies use "aged pine" and jack the price up.

[Hotzenplotz]

Every wood needs to be stored a certain time to avoid warpage after constructing. How long depends from the type of wood. Europeans made that experience while building houses from fresh wood until 800 years before. After some time all baulks were twisted. Until this point we agree: aging/ storing is necessary.

Additionally I heard the vibrations of the tones are changing the structure even for a long time after building the instrument. This was in a case talking about violins. So maybe this is true for our instruments, too.

[Ivan3000]

Every wood needs to be stored a certain time to avoid warpage after constructing. How long depends from the type of wood. Europeans made that experience while building houses from fresh wood until 800 years before. After some time all baulks were twisted. Until this point we agree: aging/ storing is necessary.

Additionally I heard the vibrations of the tones are changing the structure even for a long time after building the instrument. This was in a case talking about violins. So maybe this is true for our instruments, too.

Its very possible.