Retrofitting a horseshoe...

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:18 pm

Supposing I wanted to install a horseshoe in a bass that originally had a "standard" RIC pup. How much routing (if any) is involved? Anyone know the exact size of the new cavity? Any pictures of a horseshoe-friendly cavity?

Thanks.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:23 pm

no routing is necessary.

The surround screw holes won't line up. The narrow set is on the bottom vs the top like the standard p'ups. So drill or mount the surround upside down.

Oh yeah, good luck trying to find one! Them thangs are getting even harder to find than Schaller M4s in black!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:11 pm

my '68 had the same surround with the horseshoe as the modern 4003 pickup surround ...

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:53 pm

As Jared and Jeff said, it really just drops right in. Check out the thread called "Do it yourself horseshoe pickups anyone?" That was a fun little project that anyone can do .

walrus · Post by **walrus** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:10 pm

Jared is right, the hardest part will be finding a horseshoe, since they aren't currently available.
I had a reissue horseshoe and scatterwound toaster installed in my 1976 4001 so that I could get a sound like a V63. I liked the sound of the V63 but didn't like the neck, when compared to mine. The goal was to do the modifications in a way that it could be put back to it's original state at anytime.

I had a pickguard made with the same screw hole placement but moved the neck pickup position into the pre 1975 position for the toaster. I opted to have a metal pickup mount created and remove the non-magnitized horseshoes. It's my understanding that these were only cosmetic, on the reissues, and this allowed me more playing options. It sounds incredible and was well worth the effort. No routing was required. Good luck on your search.

rob · Post by **rob** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:39 pm

That's what I did to my '76 4001, minus the toaster pickup. I have since switched back to a hi-gain pickup for the time being. The "modern" horseshoe will fit in, but I don't know about the original horseshoe. I would assume it would fit without modification.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:30 pm

The re-issue horseshoe really has the sound of a modern high gain pickup for the most part ... the shoes were partly cosmetic, but they were steel and modified the magnetic field and sound of that pickup ...

The original horseshoe pickups were softer, quiter, thinner, and less aggressive than the modern high gain ... that's why they put in the capaciter ... to give it more treble bite ... also the old shoes degaussed easily ... making the pickup even weaker ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:37 pm

A lot of the sound of the 60's basses was the neck construction and less mass ... this made for a fundamental difference in the resonance of the instrument ... pickups are only part of the equation ... so putting in 60's pickups in your more modern bass will not give you the real 60's sound ... it will only get you part of the way there ...

but with modern amps and processors you have greater flexibility in tone generation ...

adam_swapp · Post by **adam_swapp** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:40 pm

Thank for all the help. Let me ask one more question from a position of ignorance: how big is the cavity (i.e. 5/8" x 3-1/4")? Is it just big enough to clear the pole pieces? Alright, that's two questions.

Yes, it would help if I were looking at the instrument in question.

Thanks.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:18 pm

no routing is necessary-deux

the "shoes" are above the mounting plate. Due to the increased height of the assembly the plate sits higher in the channel than the old p'up.

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:14 am

I replaced the hi-gains in my '84 4001S a few years back, got the toaster and horseshoe from Jim Rhoads. Installation was very easy, just had to drill new holes for horseshoe mounting ring.

learning_curve · Post by **learning_curve** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:38 pm

I am sorry I do not remember which one of you guy's it was who replaced the pickup cover with a hand made Horse Shoe pick up mock-up but that was great! I sure hope I remember this post correctly I plan to do the same with my 8 string potato project. I want to keep the modern treb pick-up but put a split metal cover over it to give the appearance of the older style. I'll use a Toaster in the bass slot.

I gave up trying to find a horseshoe they are expensive and they don't always work correctly when you get them. I want my bass projects to reflect how I want a BAss to look and play and I am having fun with this. So far and they are not "Money Pits" .

jps · Post by **jps** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:43 pm

That would be Jared and I'd still like to get my hands on a couple of those plus a couple of aluminum mounting plates.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:35 pm

who me?

jps · Post by **jps** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:11 pm

Yeah, you!