4003 Deadspot Issue

[RicOshea]

Hi folks,
I have 2009 4003. My problem is a deadspot; D string frets 8,9, & 10. The sustains approx 20 - 30% on these frets compared to those either side on the D string or the rest of the fretboard on any other string.
I have had several sets of strings on this bass but the result is the same.
Can I rectify this issue with a truss rod adjustment, if so should I tighten or loosen, & which rod ?

Cheers
Chris

[ilan]

I would try to loosen both rods like a quarter turn. But before you do that, try posting your question also in the technical forum, there's a lot of experience there.

[MaplegloMatt]

My 4003 has the exact same dead spot. I've learned to live with it but I'd be interested in a possible remedy also.

[colin]

I had a similar problem on a 4003 but after changing to different strings (with the accompanying truss rod adjustments, of course) the problem largely went away.

[rickenbrother]

Giving one or both truss rods adjusts a slight tweak (about 1/8th turn), shouldn't be enough to affect your setup much, but it may help get rid of the deadspot issue. Just curious, what strings are you using?

[cassius987]

My problem is a deadspot; D string frets 8,9, & 10. The sustains approx 20 - 30% on these frets compared to those either side on the D string or the rest of the fretboard on any other string.

The Ric design inherently favors this to varying degrees. I can barely detect it on one of my Rics, and on another it's fairly noticeable when the bass is soloed, but it's there with all of them. Still, I think it only caused me a problem one time in a performance setting, and that was with my 4003FL back when the problem was fairly noticeable and I was asked to do one too many solos that night (ran out of creative juice, landed and foolishly stopped on that C). Through setup work I have gotten it so close to eliminated that now I can't see it affecting me again.

Another thing to note: no matter what people tell you, ALL instruments have dead spots (and hot spots). In some cases the construction of the neck is so stiff and stable that they can't have much of an effect--the two-piece 4003 neck should help with this, or even better the three-piece neck and locking truss rods of a 4001. But a skinny one-piece neck (in the case of my 4003FL or a Fender Jazz) can be really prone to some gnarly dead spots without help because the neck is easier to flex when the note resonates with the wood. My Fender Jazz used to sound awful at the 4th fret G string, close to the same note my 4003FL didn't like. Eliminating weight at the headstock, a la light weight tuners or Steinbergers, pretty much eliminates this behavior but also changes the tone in a way many of us don't prefer.

Truss rod tweaks are your best bet to start off with if you have truly ruled the strings out. I know you've tried several sets but did you take a "scientific" approach to things and try isolating the strings as a variable by changing them without also changing the setup? Did you ever change the D string for an identical string? etc. In any case if it gets down to the truss rods, I find (and I know some people claim this is Ric folklore but it's worth trying) a neck that is truly within a few tenths of a millimeter of being dead straight sounds so much better than a neck that's even just one whole millimeter off of that mark. When I set my 4001FL up and got its neck to be that close to dead straight (easier to do on a fretless), it was likely everything came in to alignment--string volume, sustain, tonal character, etc.

This is less likely but sometimes if the neck pickup is too close to the strings it will cause weird behaviors that can't seem to be fixed, so you could also try backing it off. But if it's a Hi-Gain I doubt it's going to do that at all. I could see a Toaster possibly causing some issues.

[rickenbrother]

Less likely but sometimes if the neck pickup is too close to the strings it will cause weird behaviors that can't seem to be fixed, so you could also try backing it off. But if it's a Hi-Gain I doubt it's going to do that at all. I could see a Toaster possibly causing some issues.

That's actually not too uncommon, even with a hi-gain. Play some notes on the higher frets (14 -20), let them sustain and carefully listen to how they sound. If they sound weird, phasey or have uneven tone, the neck pickup is too close to the strings.

[MaplegloMatt]

I've always favored flatwounds and thus like a thumpy tone so I'm not too bothered by the dead spot. However, after reading Joshua's comprehensive post and usings Joey's site as a master class in RIC set ups, I may have a go at the truss rods. I usually do this about twice a year due to the northeast US climate. Humidity swings wildly between summer and winter and currently it is very low. I find this is what will drive me to make neck adjustments more than anything else. Right now there is a slight bow that needs to be adjusted back to flat.

[FretlessOnly]

I had the exact same issue on my 4003FL. Truss rod tweaks did nothing. But as part of a switch-over to black plastic and hardware, I got a set of black tuners that happened to be considerably lighter weight than the stock set. Shazaam, no more dead spot. I mean from a physics standpoint, the dead spot still has to exist somewhere to some degree, but it's nowhere that I can discren.

So, you could either velcro a lead fishing weight to the body of your bass, or try lighter tuners. The object is to reduce the ratio of headstock mass to body mass.

[T.A.R.]

Pick Up being too close to the strings, interesting! I have a spot on my '74(G 6th fret)that when I need a set up goes dead, tweak the neck and we're back to golden or at least better. The thing that intrigues me is that when I had the Di Marzio in the bridge position I could never get enough out of the neck PUP(original HG) I raised it as far as I could. I now have a '72 HG in the bridge and the neck pup is a bit over whelming. Doh! It never occurred to me to put it back down a bit and balance things out. I do realize the caps are there. Granted all this may have nothing to do with the spot but it triggered something else, Thanks.
This is what I love about this place. An exchange of knowledge beneficial to all.

[RicOshea]

Thanks for the feedback. The bass is currently wearing D'addario nickels, other strings I have tried on this bass are chrome flats, Warrick Reds,also the original Ric strings it came with.
I have a brand new set of Roto' Swing Bass waiting for this bass, so first off I will install the Roto' D string, just to see if there is an imidiate difference. If not, I will replace the D'addario D string, back off a truss rod, give it time to settle, then play it to see the result.
As far as "all basses have dead spots". Well I have six other basses (including a Cheyenne ii) from various manufacturers & I have no dead spot issues with any of them, lucky me!
Will post again in a couple of days with an update.
Thanks Guys

[Brother Firefingers]

I had the exact same issue on my 4003FL. Truss rod tweaks did nothing. But as part of a switch-over to black plastic and hardware, I got a set of black tuners that happened to be considerably lighter weight than the stock set. Shazaam, no more dead spot. I mean from a physics standpoint, the dead spot still has to exist somewhere to some degree, but it's nowhere that I can discren.

So, you could either velcro a lead fishing weight to the body of your bass, or try lighter tuners. The object is to reduce the ratio of headstock mass to body mass.

Strange; this seems counter-intuitive... I have a '75 Fender fretless that has a brass plate called a Fathead that exactly matches the shape of the back of the headstock, and mounts between the tuners and headstock to increase the headstock mass, and therefore the sustain. That's how it was advertised, and it seems to work as advertised.

Does a denser / heavier body sustain more or less than a very light body? Does a Steinberger, with no headstock mass, sustain more or less than a Zon, or other graphite neck bass with a headstock?

But then, taken to the ridiculous, would a neck with equal body mass at each end of the fretboard sustain more or less? There is more likely an "ideal ratio," rather than a maximum/minimum relationship

I don't know... I'm asking. That fretless P I have sustains like mad. What I have noticed in general is that certain strings tend to be more problematic... the G string on almost every electric guitar I own wants to buzz more than any other string, when plucked with similar force...

[cassius987]

As far as "all basses have dead spots". Well I have six other basses (including a Cheyenne ii) from various manufacturers & I have no dead spot issues with any of them, lucky me!

I have basses--Rics very much included--that I could claim have no dead spots. But they do, every guitar does. If the neck is strong and stable you will probably not hear them, though.

[Brother Firefingers]

As far as "all basses have dead spots". Well I have six other basses (including a Cheyenne ii) from various manufacturers & I have no dead spot issues with any of them, lucky me!

I have basses--Rics very much included--that I could claim have no dead spots. But they do, every guitar does. If the neck is strong and stable you will probably not hear them, though.

"Dead," or "Less Sustain?"

To me, "Dead Spot" is synonymous with "Fretting Out." Somewhere on the neck between the bridge and the fingered note, the string is encountering physical interference with a fret, pickup surround, etc.

I've sold every bass I've ever owned that had a true dead spot... some I would dearly have love to have kept, but it would have meant pulling frets, planing fretboards, etc. Most develop a problem where the neck crosses the heel (neck thickness changes); on Fender's this is around the 15th fret.

I would say definatively that none of mine have audible (or inaudible, lol!) "dead" spots... all notes sound cleanly all the way up and down the neck. There may be areas where the sustain is not as strong, but's probably purely the physics of vibration... "

I'd begin by straightening the neck and follow it by raising the action on each string individually and walking that string up the neck to ensure no dead spots.

[jps]

...raising the action on each string individually...

That is not easily done on a Rick bass.