Question for Jeff Rath

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:28 pm

Hi Jeff,
No offense taken whatsoever, I always love to discuss and find out more about how our Ricks function. LIke I said, ROS functionality had me frustrated for a long time.

So, yes I'm using a stereo cable in fact I've tried several, now to be exact. Using the stereo cable directly into my ROS jack on my 4003, I get the same signal summed to both outputs, exactly as Jeff also describes.

Can I ask what you mean by "total pickup seperation" are you saying that you're getting each pickup seperate at each side of the output, or are you getting the bridge and tail pickups seperated via the toggle switch, sent to both sides.

To define further, if you select your bridge pickup you get a signal only from one side of the stereo cable, and then when you switch down to the tail the signal is now present on the other channel. With the toggle switch in the middle you get a signal present on both channels.

This is always how I thought ROS should work, but in my experience what I get is pickup seperation via the toggle switch, with both outputs active at the same time.

jps · Post by **jps** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:37 pm

Yes, when I have only the neck pickup selected, it only goes to the right channel. With the bridge pickup only selected it goes to the left channel, and when both pickup are selected they are still only in their respective channels. It retains the "stereo" separation.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:44 pm

let me be plain ... ric-o-sound is supposed to send the signal of neck pickup to one amp and the signal of the other pickup to a second amp ...

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:47 pm

Hi Jeff,
Ok, then i'll go back and have my wiring harness double checked. Since I got my 4003 it has always worked as I've described, ie each pickup can be individually selected and then that signal is sent to both channels.

If you're seeing this on three diverse Ricks then there fundamentally must be a flaw in my wiring harness. I've a ROS box arriving in a few days via Jaymi, and I'll try that with my 4003 and see if I can repeat the conditions.

Once again to confirm, a stereo cable plugged into the ROS jack gives you each pickup isolated on a seperate channel and in middle toggle setting you have poth active but "clean" in each channel at the same time.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:56 pm

Jeff,
When I asked that at Rickenbacker service what tI was told was the opposite. each pickup when selected individually is sent to both outputs. This is to allow for EFX, or other enhancements.

I've only ever used my 4003 in attempted ROS, so it could very well be mis-wired !!!

Jeff's ... I appreciate your input on this ... time to go review my wiring harness !!!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:05 pm

ok ... I just tried it out on one of my 4003 basses ...

these are the options ...

plug a mono jack into the mono output ... and you get one mono output ... plug a mono jack into the stereo output and you get the treble pickup only ... plug a stereo jack into the stereo jack and it splits the signal by pickup ... plug jacks into both jacks at the same time and you get nothing ... the signal shorts out ...

oh ... I tried the ric-o-sound again for the first time in years ... I still don't like it ... a single output is usually enough for me ...

actually the best idea for me to run two or more amps is to simple daisy chain them as master slave ... the slave amps are all controlled by the volume and tone controls from the master ... not all amps do this ... another reason why I like having multiple ampeg b2r amps ...

jps · Post by **jps** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:24 pm

"Once again to confirm, a stereo cable plugged into the ROS jack gives you each pickup isolated on a seperate channel and in middle toggle setting you have poth active but "clean" in each channel at the same time."

Yes.

Jeff,

Very brave of you to try the ROS once again!

Of course this was done in the name of science.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:38 pm

Thanks Jeff ... !!!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:12 pm

yes I actually have 3 functioning ROS basses ... what the heck if it is not malfunctioning why spend the time and energy to remove it ... besides it came in handy tonight ...

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:20 pm

Lol ... you never know !! I appreciate you taking the time to try all three too !!!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:18 pm

Jeff, when I use the ROS on my self made 4001 wired to factory specs with a factory wiring harness, and on my '73 4001, it doesn't work quite the same as you describe. A '72 at a store downtown did the same thing too, as did a new 4003 at another store.
Plug a mono cord into the mono jack, and get the pickups as intended for mono depending on the switch location.
Plug a stereo jack into the stereo plug, and both pickups seem to be on at the same time in seperate channels, but the controls interact between them. For instance....mess with the tone on the bridge pickup, and you hear changes in the amp the neck pickup is plugged into, and vice versa. Move the switch and you get only one channel.
I would like to be able to plug into the stereo jack and be able to have completely seperate outputs without interaction. If I wanted it the way it is now, I could just split it after the mono jack and run it into multiple amps. From what everyone is saying though, it sounds like the ROS isn't really true stereo and the left and right channels will always interact. Is that right?
If so, I can see why you hate ROS Jeff!

There must be a way to mod it to get it seperate.....

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:06 am

With Ric-o-sound the two pickups are blended to a mono output at the mono jack. When you plug your cord in it shorts the two together, or closes it's switch. If you have any bleeding using the stereo jack (Ric-o-sound) I would first look for a malfunction or short at the mono jack. If if still bleeds look for an obvious mechanical short in the wiring. Keep in mind you may also have a bad ground at some point which can cause a feed back loop. You may need to use a ohmeter to diagnos this. One other thing to look for is the way the mono jack is clocked on the jack plate. I have seen these where the body actually interferes with it's operation. The way it is installed could force the outer terminal to bend and close it's switch. The only way to see this is installed in the body. If memory serves me right the mono jack is a Switchcraft model 13. That's my 2cents worth hope it helps.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:23 am

thanks Ken ...

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:32 pm

Thanks Ken, I'm going to dismantle my 4003 this coming weekend and take a very close look through the complete wiring harness, I'll take an ohmeter to it and verify all is as it should be and I've no major shorts as you describe.

It would seem I'm not the only ROS user who's experienced the "twin mono" at each ROS output.

If anyone has a pic of a typical 4003 wiring harness I'd appreciate it I'll take some shots of mine for comparison, and while I'm in there also take a look see at who signed my 4003.

Thanks for all the input guys. !!!

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:58 pm

Go here for a schematic:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/us/19507.htm