New Rickenbacker Owner, Looking for Suggestions

[pets0unds]

Hey guys I just picked up a 93 4003 Rickenbacker. For many years I've been looking for a Ric and finally found a good deal. I'm in love with the rickenbacker tone heard on all the beatles, yes, of montreal records. The thing is no matter what I do with this 4003, I can't get the sound I hear in my head. I am wondering if this is because of the different pickups on the 4003 vs 4001, roundwound vs flatwound, or something else entirely. Do I need a 4001c64 to get this tone I'm after?. Here are some examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDpRQbwgViY
http://youtu.be/WDae79po9dU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjwKiIq ... re=related

[geddeeee]

Using the neck pickup only should get you that 'thumpy' tone.

I can get it playing with just my fingers. Don't know why you are not getting it....

[johnnysain]

Many owners of both 4001 & 4003 models will say that there is a difference.

Is it safe to say that 4003's have been continuously modified towards being more pleasing to the 'modern' player? (somewhat bypassing the preferences of an increasingly smaller segment of players seeking the Beatles, Yes, etc, 'vintage' Rick sounds).

[weemac]

The 4003 has much hotter pickups than the 4001. However the classic sounds are only a bit of tweaking the EQ away....
Early 90s 4003s may look plain but there was something magical in the formula at the time...

Eden.

[rickenbrother]

Chris, I've edited the title of the thread. I'm not entertaining another negatively titled thread, as there is one already.
If you'd like the help from a bunch of Rickenbacker enthusiasts, you might want to to use a softer approach.
I'm sure that finding the tone you want is a matter of your setup, playing techniques and use of your bass gear.

[pets0unds]

Joey, I love Rickenbacker and that's why I made this thread. The title might have been a tad negative but are we only allowed to post positive things here? It's not like I made a thread ripping Rickenbackers or something I am genuinely looking for input from people with more experience then me with these basses to help me out. I have tried EQing and adding lots of compression but still doesn't sound right.

[rickenbrother]

Chris, I'm sure you are genuinely looking for help. Then that's what the title should suggest.
I don't use lots of compression. I can get just about any tone I want from my Ricks.
Sounds like you like the tone of flatwound strings. Have you tried using the mute at all?

[jps]

Playing technique would be #1, but from what I hear in the youtube vids, flatwound strings (I'd start with TI Jazz Flats), using a pick, a bit of EQing to taste and your there.

[rickyfricky]

I would try boosting the mids on your amp to 3 o'clock. Also, dime all of your bass knobs and then roll the treble volume back slightly.

Works for me.


Aside: Joey - thank you for your positivity. It is much appreciated.

[coolhandjjl]

Those are very stylized sounds. Definitely TI Flats, as mentioned, is the place to start as far as strings go.

Thomastik Infeld Jazz TI Flats

Secondly, a 'Toaster Top' neck pickup creates a unique sound that is part of what you are hearing. The stock 4003 Hi Gain pickups have a more grindy modern tone. Toaster Top pickups are stock in early 4001's, 4001v63's, 4001c64's, and also available as an accessory in the Ric Boutique, or from Ric dealers. The position of that pickup in early 4001's, 4001v63's and 4001c64's is known as the 1/2" position, being that it is mounted 1/2" from the end of the fretboard. Modern 4003's have the neck pickup in the 1" position. Some people modify their 4003's to be able to get the neck pickup into the 1/2" position. How critical is the position? Some say the 1/2" is necessary, some say the 1" position will sound good enough.

Third, the bridge pickup on the models mentioned above is the Horseshoe. You can buy a Re-Issue Horseshoe from Ric or Ric dealers. I would say the Toaster Top pickup in the neck position is the more critical of the two pickups needed to get the sound you are looking for.

Lastly, the 'cap'. Vintage Rics used a .0047 capacitor in-line with the bridge pickup. This was done for two reasons- First, it isolates the pickups so the combined sound has little phase cancellation. On a Fender Jazz bass, or other two pickup bass, the growl you hear when both pickup are used is from phase cancellation, or comb filtering as both pickups are trying to generate the same tone, but from different parts of the string. Using the .0047 cap minimizes this effect. The other reason for the cap is that it acts as a hi-pass filter cutting frequencies below roughly 150hz from the bridge pickup signal. This makes the sound from bridge pickup very crisp, or have great attack. How the player blends those pups creates the Ric magic. Lots of Toaster, with just the right amount of bridge is the secret. After 1984 or so, that cap was eliminated. Modern 4003's now have what is know as a 'Vintage Tone' control. The cap was put back in, but the bridge tone pot is a push/pull switch so you can activate the 'cap' and get a vinatge bridge tone, or bypass the cap to get the full output of the bridge pickup. Bypassing the cap makes the 4003 able to create that Fender-esque growl from both pickups comb filtering as discussed earlier.

Congrats! You have been given many closely guarded secrets that usually takes most players years of trial and effort to figure out. Use this information wisely as I have now been put on Joey's hit list.

[pets0unds]

Thanks all for your input. Coolhand thank you so much for breaking this all down for me. I wonder if its worth it doing all these mods or just selling it and buying a 4001.

[2ndHand72Rick]

I say....SELL IT!! and buy a 4001

[rickyfricky]

I say....SELL IT!! and buy a 4001

I say keep it AND buy a 4001!

[jps]

I say keep it AND buy a 4001!

This is what you will end up with, anyway, in the long run.

[cassius987]

The thing is no matter what I do with this 4003, I can't get the sound I hear in my head.

If you are comparing your bass sound raw to a mixed recording, you are never going to get it to sound the same. Mixing and mastering leave a permanent stamp on all the instruments in the song; I can guarantee you the raw isolated track doesn't resemble it as close as you'd think.