Mark;
I fitted and glued the nut on my 360 project. I used black micarta like the original. I was tempted to use bone instead, but didn't have a blank with enough height. In reviewing my Rick book by Tony Bacon, I noticed that there were Ricks in the book pics of various vintage with both black and white nuts. What nut material did Rick standardize on if any?? I use bone nuts on my Fender Strats, and prefer it greatly over the plastic junk originally fitted. What's your preference and our customer's preference???
Sincerely Paul Bamberg
Refretting a Rickenbacker
Moderator: jingle_jangle
N.C.Lacquer is a soft finish .It was the first sprayable finish and because of that ,everyone in the wood working industry used it for years.
It is a solvent release system and has a high V.O.C. rating.This is a cause of concern to the environment.
Acrylic lacquer was formulated for the automotive industry and was made to be applied to metal.
Many of the Custom colored Fender guitars from the mid 1950's to the end of the 1960's use this type of paint.They have a tendency to crack .As most of those guitars started as a Sunburst (sprayed in Nitro Cell Lacquer ,then had Acrylic applied over it to get the custom color...these paints and wood expand and contract at different rates.That is why they have those hair line cracks.
To specifically answer your question,Rattle can paint is very soft.With the propellant and all the materials used to keep it 'soft' in the can and then to get it out ....this adds time to the process.It should be noted that while several 'Luthier supply ' houses sell this stuff....I know of no really great shop that uses it unless they have no inhouse spray facility.It is meant only for touch up and only for amateur work.
No factory repair shop uses this stuff.
I would use urethane instead.
Apply the first coat thin.Let it dry longer than the container says to .
This should sit overnight.
The following day apply three coats and let them dry 24 to 48 hours.Sand them level and then apply two more coats.Let dry at least 24 hours then wet sand with 1200 to 2000 wet/dry sandpaper ...then polish.This will give you a factory look.
It is a solvent release system and has a high V.O.C. rating.This is a cause of concern to the environment.
Acrylic lacquer was formulated for the automotive industry and was made to be applied to metal.
Many of the Custom colored Fender guitars from the mid 1950's to the end of the 1960's use this type of paint.They have a tendency to crack .As most of those guitars started as a Sunburst (sprayed in Nitro Cell Lacquer ,then had Acrylic applied over it to get the custom color...these paints and wood expand and contract at different rates.That is why they have those hair line cracks.
To specifically answer your question,Rattle can paint is very soft.With the propellant and all the materials used to keep it 'soft' in the can and then to get it out ....this adds time to the process.It should be noted that while several 'Luthier supply ' houses sell this stuff....I know of no really great shop that uses it unless they have no inhouse spray facility.It is meant only for touch up and only for amateur work.
No factory repair shop uses this stuff.
I would use urethane instead.
Apply the first coat thin.Let it dry longer than the container says to .
This should sit overnight.
The following day apply three coats and let them dry 24 to 48 hours.Sand them level and then apply two more coats.Let dry at least 24 hours then wet sand with 1200 to 2000 wet/dry sandpaper ...then polish.This will give you a factory look.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Mark;
I finished the 360-12, I can't believe the difference, with high frets all they way to the binding edge, more playing room, better string spacing!! The Behlen nitro laq worked fine, can't even see where the two finishes meet on the binding. polished up wonderfully. I had used some amber stain on the fretboard followed by 2 coats of amber tinted laq, this made the fretboard really stand out. Sprayed clear laq and polished out, it was almost too pretty to cover with strings! Thanks for the tips, and this website, for those tips only an expert Rick Luth would know.
Sincerely, Paul Bamberg
I finished the 360-12, I can't believe the difference, with high frets all they way to the binding edge, more playing room, better string spacing!! The Behlen nitro laq worked fine, can't even see where the two finishes meet on the binding. polished up wonderfully. I had used some amber stain on the fretboard followed by 2 coats of amber tinted laq, this made the fretboard really stand out. Sprayed clear laq and polished out, it was almost too pretty to cover with strings! Thanks for the tips, and this website, for those tips only an expert Rick Luth would know.
Sincerely, Paul Bamberg
One more thing regarding refretting and refinishing a Rick fingerboard,and this Should be a no-brainer, but make sure All the finish is removed from the frets themselves during the wetsand/buffing process.Having lacquer or whatever on the fret tops is Not a good thing.
To anyone out there who happens to have a Fender Jap or otherwise made maple fingerboard guitar,
get it in good light, and see if you can see any finish residue on the fret tops. I have a Jap JD Tele, which I love, but I restrung recently, and before doing that, I checked closely for finish on frets, and sure enough, there was more than a bit of it.To remove it, [with all strings off guitar], I masked off on each side of the frets, exposing Only the fret top, and then used #0000
steel wool to get the finish off the fret and clean and polish the fret top. Now, I've noticed that bending strings is easier.So, If you have a guitar with a finished fingerboard, and when you try to bend, it feels"sticky", this is the problem.I think Rick is generally pretty good about getting finish off their frets, though.Any comments on this, Mark?
To anyone out there who happens to have a Fender Jap or otherwise made maple fingerboard guitar,
get it in good light, and see if you can see any finish residue on the fret tops. I have a Jap JD Tele, which I love, but I restrung recently, and before doing that, I checked closely for finish on frets, and sure enough, there was more than a bit of it.To remove it, [with all strings off guitar], I masked off on each side of the frets, exposing Only the fret top, and then used #0000
steel wool to get the finish off the fret and clean and polish the fret top. Now, I've noticed that bending strings is easier.So, If you have a guitar with a finished fingerboard, and when you try to bend, it feels"sticky", this is the problem.I think Rick is generally pretty good about getting finish off their frets, though.Any comments on this, Mark?
When I worked at the plant ,we used a long sanding block after the last clear coats were applied .Then the buffers got to do their jobs on the finish and they got polished at the same time.
The sides always have build up on them .
I use an attatchment to my Weller solder station that uses an Exacto blade (#11) and with that I 'hot' score the excess finish for customers that want it removed .It does not hurt anything to be there .
When I dress frets ,I usually remove at that time .It make my work stand out even more.
The sides always have build up on them .
I use an attatchment to my Weller solder station that uses an Exacto blade (#11) and with that I 'hot' score the excess finish for customers that want it removed .It does not hurt anything to be there .
When I dress frets ,I usually remove at that time .It make my work stand out even more.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
-
Tim_Trout
My 1982 330 is in desperate need of a fret job. Since I possess neither the tools nor the skills to perform the procedures outlined in this thread, I plan on taking it to a talented luthier to perform the job. My question is: how much should I expect to pay? Only six are really worn, two marginal, the rest just fine.
This is a multi leveled task .
Do you want it as good as it was originally or better ?
Do you care about the finish on the fretboard?
You would be surprised at the wear on more than the 6 that stand out as worn.
Have you ever had them dressed and recrowned?
When I get guitars in ,one of the first things I do is check the height of the fret wire.I do this with the first ,second (this is especially a concern on Gibson guitars )and the last .
Then if there is less than 2/3rds of the original fret left ...I refret.
Most frets start at .045 tall width varies.
Cost on refrets depends on all of these factors .
So ...to do a standard level ,crown and polish I charge $45.00
To do a level ,radical recrown and polish on a unfinished fretboard $65.00
to do the same radical recrown on a finished fret board involves taping off the fretboard $85.00,and if the fretboard is on a vintage guitar add another $25.00.Thisis for 1950's Fender guitar mostly.
To refret I get $200 plus the stripping and finish work which adds another $125
I am in the Seattle Washington USA area.Prices will vary on areas and depending upon what you have to offer .
I NEVER use rattle/spray cans.
Do you want it as good as it was originally or better ?
Do you care about the finish on the fretboard?
You would be surprised at the wear on more than the 6 that stand out as worn.
Have you ever had them dressed and recrowned?
When I get guitars in ,one of the first things I do is check the height of the fret wire.I do this with the first ,second (this is especially a concern on Gibson guitars )and the last .
Then if there is less than 2/3rds of the original fret left ...I refret.
Most frets start at .045 tall width varies.
Cost on refrets depends on all of these factors .
So ...to do a standard level ,crown and polish I charge $45.00
To do a level ,radical recrown and polish on a unfinished fretboard $65.00
to do the same radical recrown on a finished fret board involves taping off the fretboard $85.00,and if the fretboard is on a vintage guitar add another $25.00.Thisis for 1950's Fender guitar mostly.
To refret I get $200 plus the stripping and finish work which adds another $125
I am in the Seattle Washington USA area.Prices will vary on areas and depending upon what you have to offer .
I NEVER use rattle/spray cans.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
I want to add that fretting an older Rick with the vintage rods is something that does need to be compression fitted.By this I mean the fretting method that was popularized by Don Teeter in his books 'Acoustic Repairs' volume I & II ,should not be used.This works for many guitars where the wood is causing twisting or the rods do not adjust evenly down the length of the neck .I use it on guitars that are work horses and have been refretted many times .
On most Ricks (and actually any brand) I never assume that the neck is in perfect working order.
I get out my dial indicators and set up the guitar BEFORE I refret .I want to know what I am dealing with.I like to know before I remove frets ,how much relief there is and can it be evened out length -wise.
I also find that planing the fretboard is almost a necessary evil that should be done to almost every guitar.This removes any irregularities in binding edges,divots,humps (from tension over time),file marks ,and defines the radius of the fretboard.I like a nice clean edge to deal with.
If a customer wants the maximum width ,I remove the binding nubs on the edge and lay the fret wire over it .
If someone wants to remain stock ,then I measure each piece of wire (after I over radius the section of wire and trim each piece to fit ).This is tedious and some times can only be done with original style wire.
With the variety of wires /fret sizes today I must stock at least 7 different sizes.
Most of my wire comes from Dunlop so you can go to their site and see the chart of the various wires.
I also use a wire that I purchase in huge quantities from the manufacturer .It has become my favorite wire over the years and I do most of my refrets with it.
The height is .045 and the width is .102 ,this is similar to what Fender puts in their American Standard series.(I don't grind away .015 off the top though after I install it ).
On most Ricks (and actually any brand) I never assume that the neck is in perfect working order.
I get out my dial indicators and set up the guitar BEFORE I refret .I want to know what I am dealing with.I like to know before I remove frets ,how much relief there is and can it be evened out length -wise.
I also find that planing the fretboard is almost a necessary evil that should be done to almost every guitar.This removes any irregularities in binding edges,divots,humps (from tension over time),file marks ,and defines the radius of the fretboard.I like a nice clean edge to deal with.
If a customer wants the maximum width ,I remove the binding nubs on the edge and lay the fret wire over it .
If someone wants to remain stock ,then I measure each piece of wire (after I over radius the section of wire and trim each piece to fit ).This is tedious and some times can only be done with original style wire.
With the variety of wires /fret sizes today I must stock at least 7 different sizes.
Most of my wire comes from Dunlop so you can go to their site and see the chart of the various wires.
I also use a wire that I purchase in huge quantities from the manufacturer .It has become my favorite wire over the years and I do most of my refrets with it.
The height is .045 and the width is .102 ,this is similar to what Fender puts in their American Standard series.(I don't grind away .015 off the top though after I install it ).
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Another note,
If a customer wants to remain stock and has fretboard irregularities ,they must decide what is more important to them.
1- a tool that works to the utmost degree
2- a collector item
I know that many want it to be both ,but sometimes wood tell you a different story .
I recently worked on a customers new 12 string ...It needed to have the fretboard planed and a refret done !This was a guitar that was less than a year old! This was not out just a little ,but there was no way to straighten the neck!
He refused to believe it and took it to another repair man.The shop gave him the same story.
From what I gather ....and this is a rumor ,he sold the guitar rather than send it back or fix it .This was a gorgeous instrument.
It happens.
I have had to refret brand new guitars under warranty as the rod is 100% loose and I can't get any relief in the neck.The only way to get it is to add tension to the truss rod and plane the fretboard level.This takes out the center of the neck by just a few thousands of an inch .Then refret it and everything works wonderful .You even get a better fret job than what came stock!
This does not mean that the factory work is shoddy,it is just something that happens.And it does to every major company. Wood is a funny thing and has a 'mind' of it's own.
If a customer wants to remain stock and has fretboard irregularities ,they must decide what is more important to them.
1- a tool that works to the utmost degree
2- a collector item
I know that many want it to be both ,but sometimes wood tell you a different story .
I recently worked on a customers new 12 string ...It needed to have the fretboard planed and a refret done !This was a guitar that was less than a year old! This was not out just a little ,but there was no way to straighten the neck!
He refused to believe it and took it to another repair man.The shop gave him the same story.
From what I gather ....and this is a rumor ,he sold the guitar rather than send it back or fix it .This was a gorgeous instrument.
It happens.
I have had to refret brand new guitars under warranty as the rod is 100% loose and I can't get any relief in the neck.The only way to get it is to add tension to the truss rod and plane the fretboard level.This takes out the center of the neck by just a few thousands of an inch .Then refret it and everything works wonderful .You even get a better fret job than what came stock!
This does not mean that the factory work is shoddy,it is just something that happens.And it does to every major company. Wood is a funny thing and has a 'mind' of it's own.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
-
Marco
-
Jon_Dawson
As for the story about the 12 string, I know of a certain 4001CS that had the same problem from the factory, it later was sold on ebay for little dollars. I thought that it was a fluke, but I ran across another one lately that had been planed and refretted, and the guy recessed the bridge and the treble pickup ring into the body by about a 1/4. He took the horseshoe ring off and installed the pickup into a standard 4001/3 ring. It's kinda weird looking but it plays and sounds really good!
-
Tim_Trout
I don't have any good measurement instruments around the house, so I can't get an accurate comparison of wear from fret to fret. The ones that are in the worst shape have some pretty hefty dents in 'em. I bought it used a couple years ago with the fret damage already there. I've never had it dressed or crowned myself.
The guitar itself isn't in the best of condition - several chips in the body and head, and some pitting in the chrome on the tuners and bridge. Thus this fretwork doesn't have to restore the instrument to mint condition. I'm not overly concerned with fretboard finish, so if it were stripped, would that give enough playable height to allow for a leveling and recrowning? Does it even matter? I know it's hard to say without actually seeing how deeply the frets are grooved.
My new 360 will be arriving in a month to take over as my primary instrument, so I don't really want to pour a lot of money into this 330. But I'll still be using it for various things, and I'd like to get rid of the nasty buzzing due in part to the damaged frets (though probably not wholly - action very low, needs new strings and setup).
Thanks much!
The guitar itself isn't in the best of condition - several chips in the body and head, and some pitting in the chrome on the tuners and bridge. Thus this fretwork doesn't have to restore the instrument to mint condition. I'm not overly concerned with fretboard finish, so if it were stripped, would that give enough playable height to allow for a leveling and recrowning? Does it even matter? I know it's hard to say without actually seeing how deeply the frets are grooved.
My new 360 will be arriving in a month to take over as my primary instrument, so I don't really want to pour a lot of money into this 330. But I'll still be using it for various things, and I'd like to get rid of the nasty buzzing due in part to the damaged frets (though probably not wholly - action very low, needs new strings and setup).
Thanks much!
(I love resurrecting threads...)
Dr Mark -- in your experience, does refretting with larger wire affect the sound of the Rickenbacker?
Also, where do you get DiMarzio fretwire? I went to their site and did some searches, but they came up dry.
You mentioned on another post that your Les Paul has frets that measure .060" tall -- what kind are they? The biggest wire I've seen is Dunlop 6000.
Thanks!
- Scott
Dr Mark -- in your experience, does refretting with larger wire affect the sound of the Rickenbacker?
Also, where do you get DiMarzio fretwire? I went to their site and did some searches, but they came up dry.
You mentioned on another post that your Les Paul has frets that measure .060" tall -- what kind are they? The biggest wire I've seen is Dunlop 6000.
Thanks!
- Scott