Investment potential

[midlifecrisis]

Hi everyone.

I'm new to this great forum and wondered if I could ask your advice. I owned and then stupidly sold a gorgeous 1976 (I think) 4001FG many years ago and am only now in a position to be able to afford another Rickenbacker bass. The only way I'm likely to persuade my wife that this is a good idea is if I can convince her that, not only is it a fabulous instrument but (and it's a big but) it will hang onto its value and may even appreciate over time. So the question is...... which Rickenbacker bass is most likely to be a good investment?

I should say that I fully intend playing which ever bass I end up buying, it won't be locked up in a vault or left hanging on the wall. I'm really looking forward to hearing that fabulous Rick sound after all this time and learning how to play bass properly again. I have spotted a few mid 70s 4001s on e-bay and have tried a couple of new 4003s but also love the look of the various limited editions made over the years - especially the C64, 4001CS and V63 models. Will these hold their value if looked after? What about a direct replacement for my original 4001FG?

I look forward to any thought you may have on this subject. Thanks.

[sloop_john_b]

Investing in ANY guitars right now seems like a scary venture to me. I can see the value of a v63 or a 70's 4001 at the very least holding steady for a long time, but I don't know that they'll go up in value. There are a whole lot of 70's 4001's out there, especially '75-'79. Lots of v63's too.

[marc61]

Welcome Graeme

One thing I would say is, that if you have a use for it, then it can be a good investment. If you're looking for something to put under your bed, then I agree with John.

I used to own a collectibles store and found that most people who made money selling me collectibles bought things they liked and enjoyed. There wasn't much thought into value (at the original time of purchase).

That said, I don't think you'll go wrong with a V63 or a mid 70s Ric as long as you care for it properly. There's plenty of folks here to help you do just that

[paologregorio]

What John says; I am likely restating the obvious, but, no matter how rare, desirable, or high quality an instrument is, at any given time, the instrument is worth only what someone's willing to pay for the instrument, which depends on how much surplus/spare cash one has to buy an instrument. In tougher economic times, obviously, There are fewer people who have the $ to spare, and the amount one has to spare is a lot less, while those who need to sell instruments increase in number. Hence a drop in price, and your "investment" isn't such a good investment after all; witness the drop in prices over the last five years for collectibles and antiques of any sort as evidence.

Buy a Rick because it's the instrument you want; any investment qualities should be placed a distant second place in deciding which one to buy.

[incubus2432]

At this point I would say to just be patient for what you feel is a good deal on a used Ric of any model and you are likely to not lose money. As an investment to make money you "may" do well if you get a deal on a v63, signature, painted neck, COTY or vintage because it does appear to be a buyers market but nothing is a sure bet.

My advice would simply be to buy first, explain later.

[cheyenne]

Rickenbackers are a good investment.

[kiramdear]

Most of my ricks have come to me in the last two to three years; I don't believe they've appreciated one bit. Fortunately I don't mind hanging on to them until they do, if they do.

The one old-timer that I bought new has tripled in value, however. But I'm not planning to ever sell it.

[bartyclue]

Welcome

Here is my $0.02

I have a number of Basses. Some I have bought because of the supposed "desired" collectability and some because I just didnt have one of those. What I have come to appreciate after having all these guitars is that the ones that play the best, sound the best and feel the best (insert whatever you want here) are the ones that if... knowing what I know now.. I would purchase all over again. The others.. I might not be so eager to purchase again. BTW I use the "investment" stratagem with my "she who must be obeyed" as well. I'm pretty sure she sees right through me but bless her heart, she goes along with it...

One other thought is, if you buy a bass as an Investment and it does not meet the criteria mentioned above, it aint gonna be much of an attraction to a "serious" collector and you may saddled with it for a while. I have been fortunate in that my most prized bass (CS Limited edition) is also the one I love to play the most and is my main gigging axe. I suppose long after he and I have turned to dust, it may be of some value to my daughter later in her life... but I have given serious thought to being buried with it...

[DriftSpace]

I also agree with what has been stated above, but I would like to add that -- from my experience -- the best combination of "value" and playability currently on the RIC market might actually be a new Rickenbacker bass, with the 4003 being the least expensive. You don't get the added cost from "vintage" appeal, you get a warranty and a case, and you know that everything works; if it doesn't: use that warranty; if you don't like it: return it to the shop. If the market of the last 10-20 years is any indication: a RIC instrument kept in good condition could probably sell for pretty close to what you paid in 10-15 years if necessary, and if it's really special you might "break even" (not considering inflation) or make a little extra. Of course all this depends on how quickly RIC eliminate their manufacturing back-log, and what sort of "new" products they start rolling-out when they achieve the desired head-room. There are really too many factors to speculate, but my "gut" feeling has always been that a RIC is a good investment, but not in the sense of "good investment" as appreciating in value. I think a good investment in an instrument is one that is playable and is one you don't totally lose your shirt over when you're ready to let it go. If we're talking about instruments as investments like stocks: they are generally not a good investment; the only instruments really good for that are celebrity-owned and/or factory custom/special/one-off types.

The investment to primarily consider is your potential usage and enjoyment of it. As Paul (and others) said: the most important thing to consider when buying an instrument is playability and its compatibility with you as a player. RIC instruments seem to hold their value pretty well, though recently things seem to be dipping a little; this may be a affect of the factory catching-up to demand.

A sentiment that was also echoed to me in my first thread was that if you can get a playable RIC instrument for under $1,000 you've found yourself a good deal, and I believe that too. You might lose a few hundred down the line depending on a number of factors, but the monetary "loss" should pale in comparison to your enjoyment of the instrument during ownership.

I offered a similar line of reasoning as yours to my wife when I sent my newly-acquired 4003 to Paul W. for restoration; I told her the cost of the instrument plus the cost of restoration was about equal to the cost of a new instrument, except now it will be one-of-a-kind and essentially a factory custom. Of course, if I want to sell it down the line and nobody is buying ... then it's not worth anything to anyone but me.

[ken_j]

..."she who must be obeyed" ...

Welcome to the RRF Graeme.

[bassduke49]

..."she who must be obeyed" ...

Welcome to the RRF Graeme.

Or the acronym SWMBO. Don't know the original source of the phrase as it might come from Shakespeare or the like, but it was often used on the British court comedy "Rumpole of the Bailey" starring Leo McKern (who appeared as a high priest in "Help!"). In his internal monologues he would refer to his wife as "She . . . ."

[cjj]

..."she who must be obeyed" ...

Welcome to the RRF Graeme.

Or the acronym SWMBO. Don't know the original source of the phrase as it might come from Shakespeare or the like, but it was often used on the British court comedy "Rumpole of the Bailey" starring Leo McKern (who appeared as a high priest in "Help!"). In his internal monologues he would refer to his wife as "She . . . ."

Always liked ol' Rumpole...

[demon666]

As long as you wait for a decent deal you should be ok. Usually you can get back what you put into it as long as you didn't overpay for it. As everyone else said get something you are going to enjoy and play and you should be fine.

[pag]

Graeme,
Welcome to the forum.
There are investments and investments.
A lot of recent basses hold their price (just about) so you could say your money is safe but re-sale values can sway back and forth.
If you are investing in a great player I would go for a brand new 4003FG (and these days the new basses have lovely striped headstocks)
with a nice slim neck profile.
V63 CS and C64 basses values go up and down like yo yos and almost all are second hand with the new C64s well overpriced in my view.
I am making a loss on my white CS partly since its a re-finish but also the market is depressed over here in England and a CS recently sold for £1400.
The only basses that seem to be increasing in value are those from the 60s to 1973 and the owners never take them out from what I see and thats not
what you want to do with your bass.
Buy new under warranty and enjoy playing it!
All the best.

[pag]

Incidentally,
Its not the factory price of the (custom coloured ones) latest batch of C64s thay I was alluding to.
Its the price when they were sold on after that was very steep.