4001C64 Neck problems...?

[Hawkins77]

Hello all,

I'm a nube here to great site.

I've just purchaced a beautiful 09 4001C64. After attempting to set it up to my liking, I found a couple things that worry me. First and least is the typical bridge lift. It's about 1/8" now but shure to get worse. I've read that Rickenbacker has a replacment bridge that solves this...True?

The second and more serious issue is I can't seem to get the action as low as I would like. With the bridge adjustment screwed all the way down, I can only get the G string about 0.115in. (about 1/8") off the 19th fret. The other strings are higher off the neck. I would think you should be able to adjust the strings right down on the fret. Is this typical? Is there anything I can do to remedy this?

Back in the Prog days I played 4003's with no problems, at least none that I remember....

Thanks!

Dan

[Kopfjaeger]

How straight is the neck? If it bowing in that will raise the action. The change in weather has been playing havoc with quite a few of my Rickenbackers.

Sepp

[johnallg]

Hi Dan, welcome aboard!

Get the neck straight using the two truss rods, get the bridge height where you want it, then set intonation. All at pitch. This should get you where you want to be. Sweet bass, BTW.

[Hawkins77]

Thanks for the replys,

The neck is real straight. I have about 3/64" bow measured at the center of the neck. The strings buzz like crazy unless I crank up the bridge which to me seems abnormally high. I don't hit the strings very hard even when I play with a pick. What's the usual string height over the 20th fret for the E and G strings on a properly set up 4001? Maybe I'm thinking I can get the action down farther than physics allow.

Another thing that's a bit strange is the string height at the nut. It's so high that the first couple frets are out of tune with the open strings...not alot but I can hear it. Perhaps this is another "set it the way you like it" adjustment!

Anyhow, I really want this Rick to work out...it's just so beautiful! I would hate to have to part with it!!

Thanks!

Dan

[Kopfjaeger]

Dan,

I believe the string height off the 12th fret on the G string should be around 3/32 of an inch. I can't help you with all your questions since I don't feel I'm qualified. I do own 6 Rickenbacker basses, so I have had to learn a bit about how to adjust them or I'd be running up one hell of a bill with a guitar tech. Some of the guys here on the forum have taught me everything I know about my basses and how to tweek them so I take no credit if any of my suggestions help you. The credit goes to this forum.

I like my necks pretty damn flat with near zero relief. At zero, I get a bit of fret buzz on certain strings but from what I've been told, that is part of the distinct sound you get when you play a Rickenbacker bass. It does not bother me and since I am quite an aggressive finger player, I create most of the buzz I hear through brute force. So much so that I'm seriously thinking of installing a new style treble pup surround on my 73 4001 because I constantly clank the E & A strings off the raised lips of the surround!!

What is the intonation like on the bass? Is it dead on? Do you have an electronic tuner? if so, if you play an fifth fret A on your E string (or whatever string you feel is out of tune) what does your tuner say?

If you get your neck close to zero relief, (dead flat) and you cannot get your G string close to the 3/32 mark I'd check to see if the neck is parallel with the body. If the neck set is off that may be an issue in why your action is too high. Keep in mind that the 3/32 G string height is for the G and that your other strings will need to be a bit higher since they have more deflection. Any less and they will buzz like mad.

About your Tailpiece, you have the better version, it's just bent. What happens is some times the pocket in the body that accommodates the well where your bridge sits is cut a bit deeper than the tailpiece. if a prior owner has torqued the hell out of the well screws, they bent the tailpiece and began the upwards creep of the unit. How to fix this? Either get a new tailpiece or remove your tailpiece fashion a jig and slowly re bend the tailpiece till it's flat. On my Blackstar, I powdercoated a new style tailpiece to replace a bent one. I measured the depth of the pocket as well as the depth of the well and cut three maple shims to fit under the tailpiece at the well screws. Now it's impossible for the bridge to be bent by over tightening and my tailpiece has been lift free.

The third method is you can drill two more holes in the end of the unit and make it a 7 screw tailpiece. I defy that tail piece to move with 7 screws in it!!!

[johnallg]

Step zero in my three step setup should have been string height at the nut. With that too high, like yours is and all new ones from the factory (easier to take material off than put it back on), one tends to lower the bridge more than normal to get more decent action but that throws off the whole setup. I'm fighting this on my new Epi T-Bird. Get the nut slots cut to your liking, get the neck straight, set the bridge height, intonate, then set the bridge pickup height to your tonal liking. All with strings at tuned tension. It'll play great.

[Hawkins77]

Thanks for the help guys,

I'm going to remove the tailpiece and straighten it then replace the 105/45 strings with a 100/40 set. This should help a bit. The strings will have to be lowered at the nut. I still don't know about the string height over the frets. I'm taking the bass to a luthier friend of mine at Citron Guitars in Woodstock. He'll check it out to make sure the neck is in line with the body. The things we put up with for these Ricks....!

[cassius987]

The third method is you can drill two more holes in the end of the unit and make it a 7 screw tailpiece. I defy that tail piece to move with 7 screws in it!!!

It's a C64 so he probably has a 3-screw tailpiece, which explains the tailpiece lift.

[jps]

I'm taking the bass to a luthier friend of mine at Citron Guitars in Woodstock.

If your friend can't help, check with Martin Keith, he used to own a Rick or two and he knows Harvey, so you can get Martin's contact info from him. If you see Martin say hi for me (I own two of his basses. )

[Hawkins77]

To be honest, I don't know how the engineers at Rickenbacker would think that this particular bridge design would hold up considering the stress put on it. I do have the 3 screw bridge but you could put 10 screws in there and it wouldn't help one bit. I think the designers wanted to make the bridge look pretty...(with no screw heads showing) and it certainly does! It's easily the best looking Bass bridge ever!!

A solution would be to extend the base of the bridge to the end of the body and make a 90deg. bend and fix the bridge to the back edge. A nice size screw/strap button would be perfect. The bridge could no longer be pulled up regardless of the load put on it. It would still look pretty since there would be no screw heads showing on top, only the typical Phillips head inside the strap botton on the back end.

Just thinking out loud.....

[jps]

To be honest, I don't know how the engineers at Rickenbacker would think that this particular bridge design would hold up considering the stress put on it. I do have the 3 screw bridge but you could put 10 screws in there and it wouldn't help one bit. I think the designers wanted to make the bridge look pretty...(with no screw heads showing) and it certainly does! It's easily the best looking Bass bridge ever!!

A solution would be to extend the base of the bridge to the end of the body and make a 90deg. bend and fix the bridge to the back edge. A nice size screw/strap button would be perfect. The bridge could no longer be pulled up regardless of the load put on it. It would still look pretty since there would be no screw heads showing on top, only the typical Phillips head inside the strap botton on the back end.

Just thinking out loud.....

An idea I thought of would be machine screws going into the tailpiece from the back of the body pulling it down tight. Two screws is all that would be needed, at the back end of the tailpiece. Many folks would balk at having screws in back of their bass, but this already has precedent in the mounting/adjusting screws for the HB-2 pickups on the 2000 series basses.

[chefothefuture]

To be honest, I don't know how the engineers at Rickenbacker would think that this particular bridge design would hold up considering the stress put on it. I do have the 3 screw bridge but you could put 10 screws in there and it wouldn't help one bit. I think the designers wanted to make the bridge look pretty...(with no screw heads showing) and it certainly does! It's easily the best looking Bass bridge ever!!

Up until early '73 , bass TPs were cast Aluminum which has the tensile strength to withstand the tension, so the three screw design worked.
Later in '73, Rick went to die cast Zinc (I think...), AKA "Pot Metal", and with two additional screws.
So began the era of TP lift.
Sometime in the last decade (or maybe even the '90s, I dunno...) Rick made these beefier, but they still will lift.
The C64 TP is made of the same stuff and is the same casting as the 4003 (it has the bosses for the extra screws albeit un-drilled).

Actually, in the mid-late '80s the added two additional screws behind the string anchor and these are very stable. I suppose too many people balked at the
extra screws so Rickenbacker went back to the 5 screw design.