pag wrote:This thread has highlighted some issues that I think could be averted to some extent.
The vintage vs modern aspect has no relevance to an asset stripper which is effectively what a buyer who breaks down an instrument
for spares at a profit is engaged in.
For some time now I have longed to see a modern replacement aluminium bridge/tail and totally vintage accurate parts for the re-ssues.
The same people who now stock up with re-issue HS pickups to sell on would also buy the vintage accurate stuff but the butchering of
true vintage guitars might not happen to the degree we have seen if identical re-issues of their hardware was available.
Rickenbacker isnt in the business of saving the guitars that unscrupulous dealers are breaking down though and until
a series like say a Custom Shop RM and 63-68 style 4001 basses arrive on the scene (with spares available to fit other Ricks) the original parts will be sold for big margins.
Forgers could be in for a hard time if replica vintage hardware was marked underneath by some method in the cast or stamped numbers.
As for timber the wood on my 1991CS is as good if not better than any RM I have played and the build quality is as good if not better than it ever was.
The only reason old guitars are stripped is for the hardware not the wood so if the above ideas ever see the light of day we may see
the demise of the guitar asset stripper.
I agree with Pete on most points, though I do see a personal agenda peeking out from behind some solid observations.
My disagreement comes from the "hardware only" statement. In the case of set-neck guitars like Rickenbackers, the bodies are bring the greater part of the income from the breakup in nearly all cases. Even bolt-neck Rick carcass parts like necks and bodies seem to bring some pretty nice prices, probably due to rarity.
Set-neck Gretsch carcasses are currently bringing fairly high prices due to fad popularity; there are very, very few Gibson carcasses available--vintage Gibsons seem to get better care than vintage Gretsches and were sold in greater numbers during the '50s and '60s, in any case. Other set-neck carcasses (Kay, Harmony and others) are virtually worthless.
In the case of Rickenbackers--99% set neck back till the bakelite era--there has not been a huge trade in carcasses. This gibsondependable character is one of a very few who is trading in Rick carcasses. I suspect this will dry up to a great extent once prices for unmolested original Rickenbackers rebound. I have noticed that most of his stock is of more recent vintage than this 950.
Hopefully this will cap this thread in an agreeable way.
The body, pickguard, bridge (with serial #) and case arrived yesterday. Had I known the back-story earlier, I could've scored the hardware, too, but in any event I've got enough vintage parts from '67 to restore this 950.
The first pleasant surprise was the case. It is near-mint; looks a couple of months old at most, with no scuffs, no nicks in the Tolex, and perfect, vintage-correct embossed croc end cap leather. The red plush lining and white piping are flawless, and the hardware is complete and tarnish-free.
The carcass has a perfect fretboard with virtually zero fret wear, no mods and the JG is original. Purist alert--the paint will be updated. The pickguard was a surprise--it has lots of faint pick scratches, but no cracks or discolorations, so it will be retained after a thorough wheel-buffing. The tailpiece with serial number is absolutely mint, and the bridge is near-mint.
So many of the the important pieces are there.
Speculation about how the 950 got into gibsondependable's eager hands was close to the facts; in the box, mixed in with the packing material, was a shipping label from John Simmons' friend in Texas, addressed to a woman at the same address as "gibsondependable" (Ryan Ingram). So apparently he's either buying under another name with a separate account, or his mother or girlfriend is shilling for him.
Which is, incidentally, what I had to do to get this 950 back into the fold. Friend and local musician Gareth Holder was kind enough to shill bid for me, as Ingram has me blocked from bidding due to the negative feedback I gave him a couple of years back over the wiring harness debacle. Thanks, Gareth!
jingle_jangle wrote:Hopefully this will cap this thread in an agreeable way.
The body, pickguard, bridge (with serial #) and case arrived yesterday. Had I known the back-story earlier, I could've scored the hardware, too, but in any event I've got enough vintage parts from '67 to restore this 950.
The first pleasant surprise was the case. It is near-mint; looks a couple of months old at most, with no scuffs, no nicks in the Tolex, and perfect, vintage-correct embossed croc end cap leather. The red plush lining and white piping are flawless, and the hardware is complete and tarnish-free.
The carcass has a perfect fretboard with virtually zero fret wear, no mods and the JG is original. Purist alert--the paint will be updated. The pickguard was a surprise--it has lots of faint pick scratches, but no cracks or discolorations, so it will be retained after a thorough wheel-buffing. The tailpiece with serial number is absolutely mint, and the bridge is near-mint.
So many of the the important pieces are there.
Speculation about how the 950 got into gibsondependable's eager hands was close to the facts; in the box, mixed in with the packing material, was a shipping label from John Simmons' friend in Texas, addressed to a woman at the same address as "gibsondependable" (Ryan Ingram). So apparently he's either buying under another name with a separate account, or his mother or girlfriend is shilling for him.
Which is, incidentally, what I had to do to get this 950 back into the fold. Friend and local musician Gareth Holder was kind enough to shill bid for me, as Ingram has me blocked from bidding due to the negative feedback I gave him a couple of years back over the wiring harness debacle. Thanks, Gareth!
That's great, Paul. I think no one has bought the tuners yet, and of course they were as-new.....he wants a lot for them, but just saying they are out there.
Well at least this guitar will have a happy ending! Congrats on getting it Paul...
But the dilemma never ends... Here is a 1964 900 that will likely go cheap! (as it is not exactly a popular model, but is chock full of vintage parts).
How do we keep these rare instruments from being butchered without personally buying them all!
I am pleased with my BG 620 purchase - I could not have bought it any other way (peacemeal) due to finances. In the end the it will cost about the same as If I had bought the original un-butchered instrument from the original seller. Other then the wiring harness - it will be back to stock.
Ontario_RIC_fan wrote:Well at least this guitar will have a happy ending! Congrats on getting it Paul...
But the dilemma never ends... Here is a 1964 900 that will likely go cheap! (as it is not exactly a popular model, but is chock full of vintage parts).
jingle_jangle wrote: Purist alert--the paint will be updated.
Congrats on the purchase....but I hope by "updating" you surely don't mean stripping/refinishing a perfect guitar, right?
Otherwise...why on earth would we have a whole thread dedciated to "saving" this guitar and then strip/refinish it?
In that case, It'd be in better hands with the Butcher!
Okay, well -- it may not exactly be in better hands with the Butcher....but I don't see a whole lot of difference between stripping it's history by parting it out and stripping it's history by "updating" the paint (when it doesn't need it).
Unless, of course that "updating" doesn't mean stripping/refinishing, if you would care to clarify that?
jingle_jangle wrote: Purist alert--the paint will be updated.
Congrats on the purchase....but I hope by "updating" you surely don't mean stripping/refinishing a perfect guitar, right?
Otherwise...why on earth would we have a whole thread dedciated to "saving" this guitar and then strip/refinish it?
In that case, It'd be in better hands with the Butcher!
Collin, since you've never seen the guitar, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
While the guitar was in nearly brand-new condition and all original, the factory finish was not of the same quality that you'd find on, say, a 330 or 360 of the day...."Substandard" is a little harsh, but it is as though some sanding/polishing steps were left out and it came out a little rough and was put together any way.
I can see why Paul would want to do something with it, I thought about having it wet-sanded and buffed but deceided to do nothing in the end.
Paul -- I didn't mean to stir the pot, I was just shocked at the thought of stripping a pristine paint job that survived all those years like that.
I would imagine the best thing would be giving the guitar's finish a proper buffing etc, to bring out the original paint's full potential? Do share some pics when you rebuild it Glad to see most of it was purchased by the same person, and in the RRF too.
