Who right hand fingerpicks... with your 12 string ?

[jimk]

One of the instructors at the Academy shared an interesting observation about his students with me. He said that those who had had at least some piano lessons caught on to finger picking the fastest. That isn't saying that those who've never had a piano lesson in their lives can't finger pick.
JimK

Or that those of us who are left handed but play a conventional right-handed instrument have a dickens of a time fingerpicking with the non-dominant hand (even after six plus years of piano lessons as a boy, and still play keys today for some occasions)!!!

Ummmm.....yeah, that would be me, too; left handed and playing a conventional right-handed instrument.
JimK

[wmthor]

Ummmm.....yeah, that would be me, too; left handed and playing a conventional right-handed instrument.
JimK

Remember, I'm left handed and play a conventional left-handed instrument. That's the primary reason why I don't fingerpick with my right hand.

But then again, I don't fingerpick with my left hand either.

[idealassets]

those who had had at least some piano lessons caught on to finger picking the fastest

Probably so, in my case coming from drums to play guitar, somehow fingerpicking just made good sense to me rignht from the start.

Sorry to ask, what are the nut widths of the 360/12 vs. 660/12? The 660 costs more? From playing them is the 660 that much better? I don't suppose that the 660 was ever made with the "R" on the tail piece?

I like playing a Guild F412 or F50 which have about the fattest neck that I am aware of. When I go to my 360/12 I "just do it", and don't try to think about the thinner neck. So then the neck thickness on the 660 is noticeably thicker (wider and deeper) than the 360?

I didn't know much 1 year ago when I got a good deal on a virtually new 2011 MG 360/12. After less than 2 years on guitar I discovered at Eldery Instumrnebts in Lansing, MI that there is a vast difference in guitar necks out there. These are the types of things that the local guitar players don't mention much, and furthermore there are very few Ric players to ask here in Fender Strat heaven.

Thank you,
Craig

[DoubleThink]

Yes, I do finger pick on my 370/12. I've tried metal finger picks, but after decades of straight fingers, the metal picks didn't groove ... for me. Probably, I'll try again. Finger metal produces a nice sound, but I kept clicking against the pups. I didn't have the technique down. I've heard this from several 3-pup Ric players. Click, click. [Note: I don't have this prob when using a flat pick.] It might just be a short-coming of my style.

My style is the 'less-is-more' approach. Yes, I use the banjo 3-3-2 roll, & I love it. It's like ammo in the arsenal.

Read "No One Here Gets Out Alive". In the book, Densmore recalls a conversation he had with Morrison re: finger-pickin' vs. using a pick. IIRC, Morrison says to go with what feels right. As general advice, it sounds good to me.

So....

[bowser2533]

McGuinn has been playing that style for almost 50 years now. I think that 90 percent of your tone comes from your hands. Roger probably could make any 12 string and amp sound great.

[idealassets]

Wondered how many others are going down this crazy road and trying to finger pick.. a RIC 12 string.. ?

I use the bare thumb and fingers on my acoustic Guild 12 string. On the Ric 360/12 I am using thumb and fingerpicks, mainly because I am still experimenting to get the sound that I like. I'm trying to get the Roger Mcguinn sound down before I try anything fancier.

Craig

[jimk]

Craig, if you want to really get that McGuinn sound swap out your thumb pick for a flat pick. The thumb picks I've seen (Nationals, Dunlops either one) are too thick. I prefer the 1.0mm tortex picks from Dunlop. Then put one of your finger picks on your ring finger. My preferred finger picks are also Dunlop, .020mm. Anyway, that's my take.
JimK

[idealassets]

Jim, yes I know I typed in the wrong word, what I meant was flat pick. You are entirely correct about what to use on the Ric 12 string. I might add that with any variation of picks it will create an entirely different sound. Here is a variety of what I use:

Ric 12 string:
1. Flat pick only
2. Flat pick and 2 metal fingerpicks on middle and ring finger

Acoustic 12 string:
3. Bare thumb and fingers
4. Thumb pick and 3 metal fingerpicks on index, middle and ring finger
5. Flat pick only
6. Flat pick and 2 metal fingerpicks on middle and ring finger
7. Thumb pick and 2 metal picks on index and middle finger

Its funny that in order to get the correct sound for certain songs, the correct selection of picks is required. For example "Norewegien Wood" will only sound right if I use a flat pick such as Goerge Harrison originally played it. "Bells of Rhymney" only sounds right if I use #7 to do it John Denver style, or #2 or #6 if I do it Roger McGuinn style. There is certainly a reason for all these wierd variations, otherwise these exemplary artists would not have come up with it.

Craig

[idealassets]

JimK,
So far I have been using Fender medium flat pick and Dunlop .018 mm fingerpicks. National tortoise shell L size for thumb pick on acoustic.

Craig

[DoubleThink]

... if you want to really get that McGuinn sound swap out your thumb pick for a flat pick. ... Then put one of your finger picks on your ring finger.

Does McGuinn not use his right-hand pinky when he picks?

I can get a really decent roll using my thumb, index, middle and ring fingers without picks. I do not incorporate my right pinky in this method. However, there's a sound achieved when using picks. I've tried the McGuinn method, as I've interpretted from his 12-string DVD, but I just can't swing it. Granted, I'm wearing three picks (middle, ring & pinky), plus the flat pick between thumb and forefinger. I can do it, but it's such a drag, especially when compaired to my fluidity playing with no picks at all.

What I like about incorporating the flat pick is the solid, precise sounding root notes that are achieved.

[jimk]

I don't think Roger uses his pinky finger, except maybe to support his right hand. So it appears from watching the video.

And you're absolutely right about the flat pick distinctively bringing out the root notes. I wonder how much of that is due to the unique stringing of the octave pairs on a Rick. Have you noticed the difference in sound when playing one of the octave pairs on an up stroke vs. a down stroke?
JimK

[idealassets]

I'm wearing three picks (middle, ring & pinky),

I tried that for a short time, but didn't like it since the pinky finger needs to build up to do it. My pinky finger probably has only about 1/2 the mass of any the other fingers.

What amazes me is watching the Roger McGuinn instructional video, and then playing the tabs. I beleive that the tabs are close to correct, and they show what looks to be some counterintuitive, or illogical notes and picking. Thats most likely how Roger got some of those sounds that he did.

Just when I thought I had it figured out, its time for more practice..

Craig

[DoubleThink]

Just when I thought I had it figured out, its time for more practice.

For the past 35 years I've promised myself that, one day, I will start practicing.

I was trying some alternate picking patterns this evening. It's amazing how easy it is to fall right back into what you already know. This flat pick + 3/4/5 ain't as easy as it sounds. Honestly, I have to let the flat pick go. The only thing I'm gaining when using a flat pick is a sonic crispness, i.e., the root notes snap. Otherwise, I'm not getting it.

Does anyone have recommendation for using a thumb pick? I'm just laying straight skin, otherwise. Granted, it's thumb/1/2/3, so it's sounding pretty good. I would like the option to firm up that root note, though.

[idealassets]

Does anyone have recommendation for using a thumb pick?

I started doing these banjo rolls on an acoustic 12 string initially with a thumb pick and 3 finger picks. The first song by the Byrds where I got it to work was on was Mr Spaceman, which sounded OK.

But the problem became evident on most other songs by the Byrds, where the thumb pick rolls were all sounding redundant, and not quite right. Roger does a lot of "inside out" rolls, which may sound close by doing the arpeggio style with thumb picks, but with a totally different overall sound effect.

So, yes, in order to get an authentic sound I have to apply some practice rudiments with the flat pick and 2 finger picks.

[Rusty Fender]

I use a flat pick and have my 2 inside fingernails strengthened with acrylic nails. For years I tried finger picks, but they just didn't have the 'feel'. The acrylic nails let me not just finger pick but have evolved into lead picks as well. There is a maintenance issue, and I have to be careful when doing manual work or just picking something up. I find them worth the extra care.
R