Is this an original? 1964 rose morris. $?

[tobiah]

Hi there, I have seen this guitar at a local shop and am tempted to purchase...
its a 1964 Rickenbacker - Its In lovely shape for the age...
Serial is de125 - Does that all seem to check out?
How much is it worth?

Thanks for your help!

Here are some photos...

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

I would say the correct SN - from looking at the picture is DB125

Making it a few serial numbers away from John Lennon's Miami 325.

They were indeed making Rose Morris 1997's that week.

http://www.rickresource.com/register/in ... celebrity=

A cool guitar - best to snatch it up before someone else does...

[tobiah]

Exciting!
Thanks so much for your help! How much would you pay for it max?

Is the model the 1997vb?

Would the reissues have serial numbers like this?
Could this be a reissue with an original or old looking serial plate?
Want to make sure I pick up the real thing! and they havent just made an old serial plate.

What should I look for?! Thanks!

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

Yes it is a Rose Morris 1997. No need for the VB designation as all Rose Morris guitars had accent vibratos on them.

If it was not a Rose Morris export Guitar it would be a 335S - if it was originally sold in the US.

There are many more vintage guitar experts here then me - who will chime in I am sure...

But from the pictures you have posted I would say it is an authentic 1964 Rickenbacker.

The CTS pots in the wiring harness will be the next way to date it...

What is it worth? That is a trickier question. at least $3500 to $4000 without any premium about its proximity to John Lennon's.

The darker finish may mean that it was touched up after leaving the factory and is thus non original...

See here for the original Rose Morris catalog

http://www.rickenbacker.com/catalog_boo ... talog=64RM

[collin]

Exciting!
Thanks so much for your help! How much would you pay for it max?

Nice looking Rose Morris 1997 ! If it were all-original and no repairs/refinish, it would be $5200+

There is something strange with the backside of the guitar. Was it refinished? I've never seen a flamed back on any Rose Morris instrument. Most of the wood stock in '64 was plain (unlike Capri era and later 60's).

If there are issues, repairs, refins etc, I would value it around $4000

What is it worth? That is a trickier question. at least $3500 to $4000 without any premium about its proximity to John Lennon's.

Not sure the "Beatle" connection (if you can call it that) applies to instruments that are nowhere close to Beatle-spec. Ie....V82 is worth a metric ton of money because it's a '58 325 that is similar to Lennon's and one digit off. A '64 1997 isn't similar to a Jetglo solid-top 325 in any way.

If anything, maybe it's a novelty thing that people are into, but I doubt it substantially adds any premium to the price.

[tobiah]

Thanks for the information

would $5200 apply to a sale in the UK also?

I saw this Rose Morris on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICKENBACKER-RO ... 731wt_1413

It has a sunburst back - obviously very inflated price

[jps]

Nice RM, Tobiah! Looks real to me; from the photo of the jackplate the serial number looks like DF125, but what's a month or two among friends.

[tobiah]

I think it's db125 as I've been told it was purchased in the february of 64 so it's all starting to add up

Let's hope the seller puts a reasonable price on it when I go to see them

[k43rover]

would $5200 apply to a sale in the UK also?

I saw this Rose Morris on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/RICKENBACKER-RO ... 731wt_1413

It has a sunburst back - obviously very inflated price

Here in the UK, I'd say this guitar would typically be priced in the £4,000 to £5,000 range - that assumes it's in excellent and original condition (i.e. no refinish or structural issues and with minor play wear). If it were a minter, that price could go even higher. If it has any significant "issues" (e.g. refin or neck cracks/repairs) that would drop it down to around the £2500 to £3000 range. If you search the register you'll see documented examples (i.e. open UK eBay sales) of Rose Morris six string guitars selling at this type of level in the UK within the past couple of years.

The guitar you linked to is advertised at a crazy price. $20k would be enough to buy you a Rose Morris model 1993...the six string Rose Morris guitars are way cheaper.

[tobiah]

Does anyone have any tips for helping me to spot issues? Maybe refinishes etc?

[jps]

The neck looks a bit darker than the body and the heel area, especially, is quite dark, perhaps hiding some repairs. Better, detailed photos without the reflections/glare would help in determining these things.

[frickengruvin]

With regards to flame and darkness of finish, I own DD4XX, and it has been in my family all of it's life. It has mild flame (especially on the neck), and has a darker fireglow finish, so those types of characteristics are found on that era guitar.

Most instruments that were built in that era have the year and model written inside the body cavity as well. The current owner may not want to "open" it up, but please pay due diligence before laying down your hard earned pounds for a vintage piece.

Nice instrument, and best of luck!

[doctorwho]

The neck looks a bit darker than the body and the heel area, especially, is quite dark, perhaps hiding some repairs. Better, detailed photos without the reflections/glare would help in determining these things.

For comparison, here are a couple of pictures of the back of my all-original 1966 340 FG:

[tobiah]

I now have some more photos. Would really appreciate your help re value and If it's had a refinish

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... b5f142.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... c62893.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... 510a4c.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... 1e0232.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... 574a46.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... d1a32e.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... 3dc995.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312 ... c1a140.jpg

[collin]

From what I can see, it appears that the neck heel has been oversprayed. Whether that's due to a repair, I can't exactly tell....but why would anybody spot-refinish an area unless it was to cover up a repair?

The frets look pretty battered too, has it been refretted before? The good news is the back looks original and the rest of the guitar looks decent.

With the neck overspray (refin) and worn frets alone, I would put a value of $4500-$5000 on this one, with a premium for being an early '64.

Why don't you tell us what the seller or dealer is asking for the guitar, and we'll tell you if it's a good buy or not?