"I Need You" 6-string or 12?

[Folkie]

In a recent thread on another subforum, one of our resident Beatles experts, Jake Kety, listed "I Need You" from The Beatles' "Help!" LP as a 12-string song. It's hard to tell with the volume swells, but it does indeed sound to me like George Harrison's famous 360/12. Each chord has a natural chorus that practically screams 12-string! Perhaps that's why Tom Petty chose to cover the tune on a Guild acoustic 12-string on the "Concert for George":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn20txHhdHg

Anyone have any new reflections on this?

Robert

[JakeK]

I read somewhere (here? Corporate Forum, maybe?) George Martin said George used the Ric 12-string.

It also says so here: http://www.thebeatles.org/song/i-need-you

The isolated right side of the stereo mix is a good place to tell. Once I read, I clearly heard octaves and jangle in parts of the song, particularly those that didn't have so much emphasis on the volume pedal.

[wolfgang]

hello, here is my posting from 2006:


"new books, new facts. We forgot "What you're doing".
And: the volume pedal guitar on "I need you" is the Rickenbacker 12-string.
(from "Recording the Beatles").
If this is so, then it's probably true for "Yes it is" as well."

by wolfgang
Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:07 am

Forum: Beatles' Forum
Topic: Best Ric 12 Beatle songs
Replies: 25
Views: 275

[Folkie]

Thanks, Wolfgang. I probably should have done a comprehensive search before posting this thread. The reason I posted, though, was that at first I was a bit skeptical that the lead guitar on "I Need You" was a 12-string. It was only after listening and relistening to the chorus created by those octave and unison strings that I finally concluded that Jake was right. I'll have to give another listen to "Yes it Is" (haven't heard it for many years) to make an assessment on that one.

[JakeK]

I can't hear octaves and unisons on "Yes It Is", plus I always thought that might've been George's Gretsch Tennessean or '61 Strat.

[wolfgang]

yes, O.K.,Jake,
but there are some really high pitched notes on 'Yes it is' , probably from the g-octave string?

Wolfgang
b.t.w. I can't hear octaves and unisons on "I need You", too.

[robertf]

Hello all! I just joined and this is my first post. I had also wondered which guitar GH used on I Need You. In doing a couple versions of the song, I finally settled on the 360/12 with a volume pedal. here's the version-- see what you all think.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9445074

Cheers!

RF

[wolfgang]

hello Robert,
that's it.
Perfect. But were is the cowbell in the middle eights?

Wolfgang

[SkinPounder]

There was no "volume Pedal" used on I Need You, because it had not been invented yet. This recording spurred Mr. Hall to invent one.

There are photos of John sitting at George's feet turning the guitar's volume knob up and down by hand while he recorded the song. Very cool!

[wolfgang]

hello Terry,
there were volume pedals at least since 1960 or 61. The Beatles used their first volume pedal (in early 1965) for "Yes it is" and "I need You".

The photos of John Lennon in front of George Harrison's guitar volume pot came from 1964, recording "Baby's in black", as far as I know.

Wolfgang

[admin]

Robert a wonderful first post. Welcome.

I am not completely convinced that the Rickenbacker 360/12 was used here. Remember the Fabs double tracked many things. I do not hear the octave on the G. I also don't hear the sustain I would expect either. Much more thinking, listening and discussion ahead on this one for me.

[admin]

Ok, at the end of the middle eighth I do notice that the chords sound like a 12 string high up the neck. Thinking cap back on!

[Scastles]

Aw, c'mon Peter, you know it was the 12.

George Martin kept a listing on the instruments used in 3 songs from Help. It was in his book, which the title eludes me and is OOP. Besides the 12 and the volume pedal (which they did have in '65), the backing track also has George on a Spanish acoustic, according to Martin, and noted in the Recording the Beatles book.

[Folkie]

This was initially a sort of throwaway thread, but I'm glad so many details have been revealed. It just goes to show that the folks here know their stuff, particuarly Beatles-related! Great version of the song in question, Robert. I actually like the song better without the volume swells!

[robertf]

Thanks for the welcome folks! Wolf -- I did manage to forget that cowbell track...