Does colour affect tone?

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:39 am

Oh, brother!

Guitars are inanimate objects. They don't have soul. For that matter, they don't have tone without someone to play them.

These claims are not backed by any evidence. They don't become valid just because famous persons are making the claims.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:57 am

Jamie: I don't dispute that different model Casinos sound differently. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised that even different Casinos of the same model have a different tonality.

The problem is that the tonality of an instrument comes from an interaction of many factors. For this reason it is probably to possible to isolate a single factor as being entirely responsible for the perceived difference.

Nonetheless, tonality is a fascinating study and it is always interesting to speculate what the important variables might be. Wood, solid, semi-acoustic, neck, headstock, nut, bridge, strings, pickups, cord, pick, amplifier, tubes, speaker.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:59 am

All guitars sound different, whether they're painted or not.

Have you ever played two identical guitars back to back?

It can't all be pickups. I can hear definite sound differences between solid bodies and hollow bodies, both electric. Even between, say an ES-335 or a ES 330 - the block of wood in the center changes the sound. The parameters of what exactly makes a guitar sound the way it does are huge. I'm not particularly defending the 'paint or stain' theory, just saying it could factor in a bit.

And why no soul ?

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:01 am

We were typing at the same time Peter.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:07 am

No soul?

Are you saying that Rickenbackers don't go to heaven?

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:15 am

Yes, I've played identical guitars back to back. Sometimes several of the same. And they all sound at least a bit different even if they have the same finish and everything else about them is the same on paper.

It's certainly not all pickups, I didn't mean to imply that. You can move one P-90 from an SG to an LP to an ES-series and get three very noticeably sounds. But the way an electric guitar makes sound is by the amplified output of the pickups, not by a moving top amplified by a soundbox.

Unless someone comes up with some double-blind listening test evidence, I won't even regard finish differences as any factor at all. If there is any actual difference, I don't believe anyone can identify it.

I don't understand what you mean by "why no soul?". Ascribing soul to inanimate objects is the the stuff of ad copywriters and mystics. I'm neither, and proud of it.

jeff_ulmer · Post by **jeff_ulmer** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:52 am

I believe color does have an effect on the sound, but not due to the pigment, it has to do with the way we feel when we play. Changes in the sound of an electric guitar model from instrument to instrument are due to the density of the wood, and the mechanical relationships between its parts.

I would say that guitars do have a soul, they are born of living things, and the elements that they are comprised of are all the result of energies being brought together.

It's no wonder a cheap guitar sounds bad, I mean, would you be happy as a cheap guitar?

billikenn · Post by **billikenn** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:05 pm

what ya need to do is take an unfinished guitar (while it can still 'breathe') play and record it

then finish it
play the same thing and record it the same way.

Ill bet my million on no perceiveable difference.

Two different, seemingly identical, guitars dont count.

JP

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:24 pm

I agree with Jeff on the energies thing. One of the reasons I am drawn to Rics is the history. When I play, I can almost feel that history coursing through my veins, which probably makes me a better player than I actually am. Is this soul, or is the soul put into it by the player? I think it's a two way thing.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:47 pm

I don't mean this to be harsh, but that's irrational. Guitars are inanimate objects, period. They don't have soul, mojo or anything like it, nor can you transfer it into them.

Pride and happiness that you're playing the same kind of guitar that's made musical history? Sure. Can that inspire you to be better player? Sure.

emswife · Post by **emswife** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:21 pm

We assign a "personality" or "soul" to our favorite things, like cars and guitars, so that when things go right we can praise them like they are alive and blame them for when they don't cooperate.

It is merely a way to project our feelings and frustrations.

I myself have tried to coax a car into starting by calling it nice names when in reality it had a dead battery. Dead battery or brain dead... who's to say...

aristeas · Post by **aristeas** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:19 am

Along with guitars I also collect swords. Part of the making of a Japanese katana (samurai sword) is allowing the sword to acquire it's own spirit, or 'kami'. A 'live' blade is qualitatively different than a machine made blade or replica. It requires respect and sensitivity to work with one. Without this there would be no 'art' of bushido. Your spirit works in harmony with that of the sword. That is how a greater spiritual awareness can come from an otherwise nihilistic act such as cutting with a sword. That's the difference between swordsmanship and swinging a lump of iron in the air.

Music is one of the greatest achievements of human civilisation. It is an end in itself, existing purely as ephemeral beauty, but allowing both musician and audience to come together in harmony. Can an instrument have a spirit? It can certainly grow one. It has a voice, and some have a distinct personality. Mysticism and music have always gone hand in hand, even at a Clash concert.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:01 am

I'm not a religious man at all and in general, shy away from getting involved in conversations about soul or spirits, that sort of thing. But I'm with Lee on this one, I've studied swords and I understand 'kami' and all of that.
Something is passed from the builder or owner, and it's just something you're in tune with - or not.
I mean, haven't you ever felt a guitar is a 'part of you' or an 'extension of yourself' ?

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:03 am

I'm not a religious man at all and in general, shy away from getting involved in conversations about soul or spirits, that sort of thing. But I'm with Lee on this one, I've studied swords and I understand 'kami' and all of that.
Something is passed from the builder or owner, and it's just something you're in tune with - or not.
I mean, haven't you ever felt a guitar is a 'part of you' or an 'extension of yourself' ?

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:04 am

Whoops.

Ghosts caused that to happen, by the way.