360 pickup wiring/balance issues

[doctorwho]

BTW, welcome to the Forum, Ty!

Don't feel that you are carrying the discussion too far, especially since the issue you are experiencing remains unresolved. One of our missions here on this Forum is to help folks out!

Depending on your mechanical and electronics skill level, you could try measuring the resistance of the pickups. There is a thread somewhere that includes instructions on how to do this (with a VOM), IIRC without unsoldering the pickup (the last resort). This way you could determine whether the output of the bridge pickup is weak due to loss of resistance (e.g. from a broken coil winding).

I also recommend cross-posting your question under The Vibrola section where the expert luthiers can be sure to see it and perhaps be able to help you out, too.

[stsang]

so i'm wondering: wouldn't this mean that the output on the neck pickup is higher than the bridge pickup? If so, would there be any problem in just putting the bridge pickup in the neck position and vice versa? I want the pickups balanced like in my 330. Its crazy, this 360 plays better than my 330 but the 330 sounds better, hands down. ...but in the meantime, is there anything bad about putting the neck in the bridge and bridge in the neck?

That wouldn't be a problem at all. I think I suggested doing this in an earlier post on this thread.

[ken_j]

...but in the meantime, is there anything bad about putting the neck in the bridge and bridge in the neck?

thanks again for feedback.

The poles are spaced wider on the bridge pickup.

[Revbrodiddley]

Thanks Tsang, I see where you did indeed. I was wondering if there was any downside to that, which was just answered with the string spacing thing. So I did the resistance testing trick using a short cable in the input and measuring by switching on the bridge pickup alone and then touching my ends to the tip of the cord and to ground, and then doing the same with the neck pickup. Neck pickup measures 12.58 and bridge measures 89.7 and it says k (horeshoe) so thats kilo-ohms?? Not sure. Obvious point though: SIGNIFICANTLY different readings at the pickups and these readings are very consistent and stable. So i guess it goes to a tech at this point unless that sounds like a specific clear issue to someone on here. Thanks again, I feel like some headway is being made.

[Revbrodiddley]

Also perhaps noteworthy is that when I decrease the volume knob on the neck pickup, the resistance is increased significantly until it equals closer and closer to 100 k (horseshoe) as I get toward 0 volume. The bridge pickup, however, changes minimally in amount of resistance even though the volume does smoothly affected by the pot. I'm sure there is a good lesson in here somewhere. I look forward to learning it.

[ken_j]

To get an accurate reading the pickup must be out of the circuit. You need to de-solder one wire of the pickup to isolate it from the circuit. While you are at it you may as well check the pots to see that they are functioning properly too.

[Revbrodiddley]

So as a progress report:

I got some new hi gains for the 360 which both measure around 12.4. I took the old ones out of course and the neck measures at 14.44 and the bridge at 6.59!! So that should solve the issue right? Wrong. Although there IS an improvement in the overall balance of tone, there is still a strange absence of girth or low-end response to the bridge pickup by itself. So with that much of a resistance difference between the old bridge pickup and the new one (old was 6.59 and new is 12.4), the sound is pretty much just as anemic. I'm thinking there HAS to be some sort of capacitor/resistor/diode/thingamuhjiggy in the signal path of the bridge pickup making it so ice picky/thin.

I've read something about 'bright caps' before...is there any chance I'm prey to a bright cap?

[jeffkaplan]

i just got a '79 360 12 string that had the same "imbalance" (air quotes because it appears to be intentional on Rickenbacker's part.) I just did the wire bridge to remove the effect of the .0045 capacitor as described in various threads. It completely changes the pickup and makes it much more in balance as far as volume and tonal quality. It took just a few minutes. Don't remove the capacitor just solder a new wire to the to places it is connected. If you don't like it you can just remove the wire.

[8mileshigher]

Welcome aboard the RRF. Hope you get the problem resolved.

I have an '81 370 WB that originally had a rip-roaring Neck pickup, and that Neck pickup had much more output than the original Middle and Bridge pickups. In the meantime I've gone through five or six pick-up change arounds on the WB in about a two year stretch.

But you know, there are probably some folks who would like to get that high-output 14.4 Ohm Neck pick-up that you have surplus now.

[kiramdear]

That capacitor bypass mod really brought my 320's bridge pickup to life.

[iiipopes]

So as a progress report:

I got some new hi gains for the 360 which both measure around 12.4. I took the old ones out of course and the neck measures at 14.44 and the bridge at 6.59!! So that should solve the issue right? Wrong. Although there IS an improvement in the overall balance of tone, there is still a strange absence of girth or low-end response to the bridge pickup by itself. So with that much of a resistance difference between the old bridge pickup and the new one (old was 6.59 and new is 12.4), the sound is pretty much just as anemic. I'm thinking there HAS to be some sort of capacitor/resistor/diode/thingamuhjiggy in the signal path of the bridge pickup making it so ice picky/thin.

I've read something about 'bright caps' before...is there any chance I'm prey to a bright cap?

What you took out are almost identical to the pickups that are on my 1981 320 and 360-12 that I discussed earlier. The guitar may already have the .0047 capacitor inline from the selector switch to the bridge pickup volume pot. One thing this capacitor does is to function as a high-pass filter, cutting the lows on purpose. And because the bridge pickup is so close to the bridge, there is very little string excursion as compared to over the neck pickup, so there will be less output for that reason as well.

Double the windings does not result in double the output. The math to explain this is wider than the bandwidth of the thread.

It is my understanding that all RIC highgain pickups have the same pole spacing, not differentiated between neck and bridge. And this is after examining in detail all of them, including both button tops and new adjustible poles.

[ken_j]

...It is my understanding that all RIC highgain pickups have the same pole spacing, not differentiated between neck and bridge. And this is after examining in detail all of them, including both button tops and new adjustible poles.

You may want to re-measure them. All the ones that I have encountered had a wider pole spacing for the bridge than the neck. Bridge pickup part number: 00022, neck pickup part number; 00020.

[stsang]

...It is my understanding that all RIC highgain pickups have the same pole spacing, not differentiated between neck and bridge. And this is after examining in detail all of them, including both button tops and new adjustible poles.

You may want to re-measure them. All the ones that I have encountered had a wider pole spacing for the bridge than the neck. Bridge pickup part number: 00022, neck pickup part number; 00020.

This discussion of pole spacing was confusing me too... I think you're BOTH right but talking about different things. It looks like for Ric basses, the neck pickup is a different part (00031) and the guitar toaster (same for all positions) is part 00030:

http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_505.html
http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_504.html

So guitars use the same pickup (with same spacing) in all positions.

Hope that helps.

[8mileshigher]

This discussion of pole spacing was confusing me too... I think you're BOTH right but talking about different things. It looks like for Ric basses, the neck pickup is a different part (00031) and the guitar toaster (same for all positions) is part 00030:

http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_505.html
http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_504.html

So guitars use the same pickup (with same spacing) in all positions.

Hope that helps.

That differencce between the Basses and the Guitars was my understanding, too.

[stsang]

...It is my understanding that all RIC highgain pickups have the same pole spacing, not differentiated between neck and bridge. And this is after examining in detail all of them, including both button tops and new adjustible poles.

You may want to re-measure them. All the ones that I have encountered had a wider pole spacing for the bridge than the neck. Bridge pickup part number: 00022, neck pickup part number; 00020.

This discussion of pole spacing was confusing me too... I think you're BOTH right but talking about different things. It looks like for Ric basses, the neck pickup is a different part (00031) and the guitar toaster (same for all positions) is part 00030:

http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_505.html
http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_504.html

So guitars use the same pickup (with same spacing) in all positions.

Hope that helps.

My apologies - my ignorance was showing there... You are talking about high-gain pickups - which I know nothing about (both my Rics have toasters).

But looks like there are indeed different high-gain pickups for Ric 300 series guitars neck and bridge:

PICKUP ASSY 300 NECK CHR / Part Number 00020
http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_502.html

PICKUP ASSY 300 BRIDGE CHR / Part Number 00022
http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/PICKUP ... p_503.html