Too much upper-mids

[Badanovski]

Dane after reading your reply I went back & set the amp flat. The tone is predominately Hi-mids. If I cut the high mid controll (centered @ 800HZ) all the way off I start to hear some lows but the highs are subdued. If I cut the low -mid control (centered at 360HZ) almost off it starts to sound better to me . If I then raise the high control ( the manual says 5khz with a Q from 2khz to 30khz) to about 1:00 the highs come in. There is still more mids than I like. I then turn the VPF (boosts lows @ 35hz & highs at 10khz cuts mids a 360hz) up. As it goes up I like the overall sound better but some really annoying ( at least to me) upper mids get louder as it goes up. None of my other basses get these annoying mids. I peeked in the control compartment it all looks stock. Do you think the 500k pots & The .022uF cap might help with those mids above 800HZ. I would be sticking with the 1 vol & 1 tone setup.

[aceonbass]

Rock, even with the simpler master volume/master tone set-up, I think 500K pots and a .022uF cap would sound better. That's how I had my last two 4004's wired initially, and it was a big improvement. Eventually, I stepped up to a VVT setup with coil taps, which gave more versatility, but the basic tone was the same.

[woodyng]

Both my 4004's have the modification Dane mentioned done to them. I don't think anything was lost with the mod,and the basses have more of the treble top end that a Ric should have. I also love the coil tapping modes,which,brings the basses even closer sounding to the 4001 sound.

[Badanovski]

I was talking with my guitar player about this issue & he suggested I unsolder the cap. He was going to lend me a selection of different value caps & I should alligator clip them in to see if a different value could improve the sound. I was looking at the schematic & it seems if the volume & tone are all the way up it's a direct connection to the output jack & the cap has no effect. Has anyone tried traditional wiring & what effect does that have on the tone? Dane does your wiring mod include traditional tone control wiring?

[aceonbass]

Rock....Yes it does. I can make a harness for any combination of components you want...simple VT..VT with dual coil taps..VVT..VVT with dual coil taps...Harness comes complete with output jack and the same grey output wire RIC uses.

[cassius987]

First I fail to see how unsoldering the cap improves your mids issue. It will just brighten everything up which doesn't seem to be something you've said you want. However it may change the circuit resonance which may (or may not) work in your favor. But also:

I was looking at the schematic & it seems if the volume & tone are all the way up it's a direct connection to the output jack & the cap has no effect.

Not true. The cap is always having a small effect--when the pot's all the way up, it just has x ohms of resistance between it and ground so the highs are generally "protected". With no resistance in between you hear them nearly disappear. But the cap out of the circuit altogether is an even brighter sound because with it in there, except with special pots, it's always killing a little of your high end.

[aceonbass]

Joshua, I think he meant that once the cap was unsoldered, to try a series of caps alligator-clipped in to see what he likes. Be aware Rock that since you still have the 330K pots in there, they will affect the sound of your final choice. The 330K pot will sound darker with the HB1 than a 500K pot. Trying this with 500K pots would be optimal.

[cassius987]

Right Dane, I missed that bit in my haste. Sorry Rock.

[Badanovski]

As luck would have it, a search of my parts bin turned up a stacked control with 2 500k pots. I have no idea what project I got if for. But it'll come in handy for the tests. This way I can keep the ric harness relatively untouched in case I don't like 500k pots. The bands on hiatus till our drummer's shoulder heals so the guitar player is going to mail me the caps.

[iiipopes]

OK, here's a definitional problem: I had a hard time understanding the OP's use of the term, "high mids." In all other audio contexts (from
http://www.teachmeaudio.com/production/ ... o-spectrum) frequency bands are usually described something like this:

Summary Table Of Frequency Ranges
Name Range Description
Sub-Bass 20 - 60 Hz Power, rumble
Bass 60 – 250 Hz Boom, thump, fat
Low-Midrange 250 – 500 Hz Full
Midrange 500 – 2000 Hz Horn , cheap
Upper-Midrange 2000 – 4000 Hz Prominent, Horn
Presence 4000 – 6000 Hz Clear, bright
Brilliance 6000 – 20, 000 Hz Air, sparkle

[cassius987]

I have frequently seen "high mids" used to describe anywhere from 800-1200 Hz in the context of bass guitar.

[Badanovski]

In this case, the Mid High control on my Markbass amp Is centered on 800hz. I think the offending frequencys are in the upper range of this control. I call them hi-mids. I suppose they might end up being low-highs.

[iiipopes]

Sounds like it may be a mismatch of the driver compliance to the cabinet size of the amp. Have you run the guitar through other amps?

[Badanovski]

First of all, there is nothing inherently wrong with the tone of this bass. I'm sure other people would be perfectly happy with it as it is. It's quite a bit like my 51' reissue precision. When plugged in however it is quite a bit different than my 4003S which I love. Acoustically both Rics sound similar with the 4004 being a bit more lively. In theory with the electronics tweaked I should be able to get a similar sound from them plugged in. I can get an acceptable sound through my amp. I'm just really annoyed by the upper-mids when recording & believe the sound through my amp could be better ( more to my liking ). If I went with active pickups & electronics I would have no problem getting the sound I like. This instrument is just too beautiful to be routing out sections for electronics. I normally don't like gold but love the gold pickup surrounds against the jet-glo body so the pickups will have to stay. This is why I would like to use cap & pot selection & or pickup wiring to to get the sound I'm looking for. I'm still waiting for the caps so I have been trying different EQ's in my DAW & Sans Amp bass driver. Close but no banana.