Warning: Potentially stupid drop D tuning question

[Kopfjaeger]

They say no question is a stupid question so here goes.

I took my 2011 Circle K balanced tension strung 4003 bass and tuned the E to D. I seem to have lost a ton of clarity in doing so. The D sounds passable but just so. I'll describe it as muddy. When doing hammer ons and pull offs they are barely noticeable now. The string does not feel overly "floppy" but it is not crisp either. I did this experiment before purchasing a drop D tuner from Hipshot. I'm thinking epic fail!

Is the loss of clarity when down tuning or using a drop tuner common? The E string it is .106.

I do have a Modulus Quantum 5 that I could pick up the low D but the song I need to play is Slither by Velvet Revolver. There is a lot of fast picking and open D in the verse and I'll never be able to hit the D with the speed of the notes the way it jumps up the neck. Playing the open D is really the only way to go with this song.

If I go to a set of strings engineered for drop D tuning, will I pick up the clarity I lost by down tuning the .106 E?? Seems a waste to make one bass a drop D bass for one song but the that is exactly what the prior bassist did, Granted he was playing Jacksons and not Rickenbacker's.

Sepp

[iiipopes]

Yes. The loss of clarity is common. If you want to keep the drop D, contact CircleK and ask what string they recommend for D instead of the 106 for E. Also, using too much neck pickup on the drop tuning can make things a little dark.

For drop tunings, I do think that bypassing the .0047 capacitor and getting a more full range signal from primarily the bridge pickup, with just a touch of neck pickup to bring up the fundamental to the desired level helps a 4001/3 do better, because the overtones work together to help the fundamental have clarity.

[coolingitdown]

Sepp, I can tell you from experience that a .112 from Circle K tuned to D sounds fantastic! I used to have a balanced .112 set on my 4003 tuned DGCF, and it was perfect. It'll be a bummer having a dedicated drop-D bass, but it works. I guess you could just have a heavy E string the rest if the time.

[Kopfjaeger]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info. I kinda thought the muddiness was a by product of drop tuning a string meant for E. I normally play with the treble tone and volume at 3/4 or better and the neck pup rolled back to half or so. I can try tweeking it a bit but I doubt I'll have the results I'm happy with.

As far as the Circle K .112 drop D string, I was looking at that but i do hate to "condemn" a bass to drop tuning, especially for one damn song, although I may be able to justify it in other areas if I expand to new songs. Kinda opens up new possibilities.

Two questions, does a switch to a .112 E or D string need the nut to be cut?? I mean it's only .06 larger. Thoughts?

If I have to cut the nut I suppose I can retune to E if I need to but will the increased tension cause issues on the bass side truss rod?

I purchased my Shadow with the express purpose of making it a DADG bass but it played so well and sounded so damn good that I could not do the transformation. If I were to turn any one of my Rickenbackers into a sole purpose DADG bass, I'd most likely go with my 2001 4003, although I love that bass.

Sepp

[iiipopes]

Circle K has a tension guide on their website. You can consult it to see what tension each of the strings will pull at either D or E. Then you can decide.

If you don't want to constantly be changing, then the only two alternatives are a 5-string or a Kubicki Factor bass, which has an extended two frets onto the headstock E string, and a little lever that flips out of the way so you can have either the low D two frets longer or the conventional E string.

[Kopfjaeger]

Scott,

Yikes another bass?? It's an option but highly unlikely. I have the 5 string Modulus that I can get much more range out of, although it's no Rickenbacker. Oh, she's no slouch but she is very different in just about every way. It just does not work for this one damn song!! In your opinion, does the nut have to be cut to accommodate a .112 string from stock RIC .106 E?

Sepp

[coolingitdown]

In your opinion, does the nut have to be cut to accommodate a .112 string from stock RIC .106 E?

In my opinion and experience, no, I wouldn't worry about it. It will be a tight fit, but here's a solution to that: move the string back and forth through the nut slot, like you are pulling it toward and then away from the bridge. The string will act like a saw and whittle away the tiny bit of the nut you need out of the way. This is only to make the nut slot wider, though. DO NOT CUT IT ANY DEEPER!

Should you decide to go back to your .106 E in the future, the slot will not be so wide as to cause any problems. When I switched my 4003 from DGCF to standard tuning, I went from a Circle K balanced .112 set to a balanced .106 set. I didn't have to touch the nut in the process. As a matter of fact, I've had other players tell me they've gone from BEAD tuning back to standard and not bothered to touch the nut in any way, and their basses are fine.

Don't stress, my friend! It will all turn out in the end.

[cassius987]

I really think if you're just doing this for one song that in a live band mix with a softer touch from your right hand and with small adjustments to EQ it will be totally passable and not worth all the fuss of a bigger string... plus you have to remember, drop tuning has a certain sound that comes with it (listen to Tool for example) that has its own advantages, sort of a loose and thuddy clank. Play with it a bit before you size up for good, or get a string that splits the difference in tension so it does pretty well in both standard and dropped tuning.

[coolingitdown]

I really think if you're just doing this for one song that in a live band mix with a softer touch from your right hand and with small adjustments to EQ it will be totally passable and not worth all the fuss of a bigger string.

I had meant to mention something along those lines as well. I'm not so sure I would worry about it for one string on one song. I had to drop to C a couple of times on my DGCF-tuned bass. One of those times was with a set of TI Jazz flats on the bass (!!!). It was incredibly floppy, but it worked.

And, like Joshua said, there's just something about that drop-tuned timbre that just kind of works. If it was me, I'd just keep a standard tuned set on the bass and live with one floppy string on one song. If, however, it really bugs you...

get a string that splits the difference in tension so it does pretty well in both standard and dropped tuning.

That's an idea too. At that point, the tension difference would be noticeable, but not too bad (it would allow you to dig into your E string a bit more, anyway). I don't know if Circle K will make a custom string for you, but maybe you could split the difference and see if they'll make you a .109.

Actually, I've just looked up their tension chart. They're .106 tuned to E has 43.2 lbs of tension. The .112 at D is 38.2, and at E is 48.1, so that's a pretty decent compromise right there. Now, raising or lowering the tension by 5 lbs on every string would have a pretty dramatic effect on the bass. But 5 lbs lower or higher on one string? Not so much, I wouldn't think.

[Kopfjaeger]

I can live with a floppy string, it's the muddy sound that I don't think I can. Perhaps I'll push for more songs with drop D now that it looks like I'll be moving to the .112 Circle K D. Perhaps some Mastodon is in our future!!

Thanks the the help. Yeah, I've been over thinking this bit, you guys could tell right?? I just love how all my Rickenbackers play and sound so there is a huge amount of trepidation when making a change.

Sepp

[Kopfjaeger]

Update, got my .112 drop D string from Circle K. It was a snap to install after burnishing the sides of the nut slot with the new string. Thanks for the tip!! Hammer on and pull off response had increased greatly. The string still sounds quite dark as compared to my .106 E string and the .136 B I have on my Modulus. I'll screw with amp settings a bit. Overall I'm happier, not a slam dunk but I can most definitely live with it.

Sepp

[jdogric12]

I dropped my 4002 E to D for a metal gig once. At the rehearsal it beat out the 73 4001 hands down.

[Kopfjaeger]

OK, done! Here is a You tube clip I had to put together for a pre audition sample. The guys loved it and I'm in!

Thanks for your help!

Sepp

[clementc3]

Very cool! Congratulations!

And, (sorry to derail this thread), I like your kitchen, too!