Problems with neck...

[Cash05458]

Hello all...newbie here and long time Ric fan...I am having a problem with a 2003 4003 and will make this as short as possible. I bought the bass new then moved to Europe for the last 8 and a half years...bass was stored at my parent's house properly. Now, when I got the bass the action seemed very high...and simply thought this was a truss rod fix...no biggie...I ended up staying in Europe longer than I ever thought which leads me to of course being well beyond my warranty period. So last year when I came home,I began working on the bass...I used to do some work on my guitars so was not worried. In short, the action was way too high and there was an underbow...no matter how much I worked the truss rods, the action would not come down as you went from headstock to body, tho I could see that I was straightening the underbow some...finally, the truss rod snapped...what was occuring when I opened the body was that the screws were pulling back up into the neck body...a soft wood problem...so I ordered new rods, and tried the superglue fix to harden the wood and used washers...this just would not work...rods kept pulling up...so finally, I used rather large, thick washers that lay outside the holes...this finally worked so that the rods would not pull into the neck cavity...I thought I was good here...and indeed could get the neck nearly straight...yet the action was still terribly high as you went down the neck towards the body...so I took the bass to a good luthier...he worked on it and told me that in his opinion I had gotten a dud and should have sent the bass back under warranty...so what is going on, finally, is that the neck, tho straight, slants inward towards the body and that has been the problem all along since it was made...does anyone here have any ideas on saving this bass? I would hate to have to just give up on it and at this point via Rickenbacker raising their prices, could not afford a new 4003...any suggestions?

[sloop_john_b]

The same thing happened to mine. The fix was to have the fretboard removed and basically start from scratch underneath.

[Cash05458]

ack...that is something I really don't want to do! let me guess, plane it down to compensate for the angle?

[sloop_john_b]

ack...that is something I really don't want to do! let me guess, plane it down to compensate for the angle?

No planing - new wood.

I might add that the turnaround time and price for this were both more than reasonable.

[Cash05458]

Could you explain abit more? who did you go to for that and how much? I certainly want to save it if I can...just am frightened of it turning into a nightmare...I am frustrated enough!

[cheyenne]

The same thing happened to mine. The fix was to have the fretboard removed and basically start from scratch underneath.

John your the first person I thought of after reading this. Maybe this should be referred to as the "Biscuti syndrome".

[sloop_john_b]

Jeff, see here (fast-forward to page 3 or 4 for the fix): viewtopic.php?f=2&t=382014&start=0&hilit=soft+wood

Ha! Thanks Scott - just glad it's over.

[Cash05458]

John...thanks for that link! Actually, tho my luthier told me this bass was too far gone I think I might have it in the area it needs to be...as the superglue and washer thing didn't work, I decided to try rectanglular, thick washers so the body end bolts sit out entirely flush...with this I was able to get more torque and pull the neck back abit...also, altho I tend to play heavy/medium gauge strings, I went with light gauge, thinking of the tension pull...(as I play a ton of guitar these days, I find I like the light gauge strings on the 4003...odd)...so the neck is straight and my measurement at the 12th fret from string bottom to board is 5/64th...which is pretty good...I also ordered a hipshot bridge hoping I can dial that in abit more precisely...and while this may sound funny, from now on, rather than keeping her on a proper stand I am leaning her face forward against the wall...I figure this way, with humidity changes and all that jazz, there will be pressure on the neck going back, rather than the constant string pressure pulling in...no idea if that will do anything really...just DYI physics ect...but overall, she seems to be good...I called my luthier back and he just said a sorta "I'll be damned...huh...go figure"...
I had read in other places that rick folks had said there could be no soft wood problems with later 4003's...considering my treble side had pulled up into the neck nearly an inch, I would strongly disagree with that...in my opinion Rick ought to take a look at that sorta stuff maybe...

[weemac]

It sounds like a neck dive issue, where the neck is collapsing into the pickup cavity. It can be fixed by having a luthier plug the cavity with a slightly oversize rock maple block (which will wedge the neck back where it should be) and then route only enough to squeeze the pickup in and access to the rods. I've done this once, but Dane (who hopefully will drop in) has done it a few times and has found it to work well too.

Don't panic yet, your bass should be salvageable....

Eden.

[Cash05458]

it has been awhile but thought I would post back...I fixed this Bass with a lil creative stuff...my luthier had told me it was done...round holes ect and even super and wood glue would not work or round spacers...the bigger round spacers would still pull into neck cavity as wood was so soft...I ended up putting square...or actually more rectangular spacers over the holes...I got these from my bike cleats...if you are a cyclist then you know what I am talking about...anyhow...these were strong enough and had the right geometry to allow me to get that neck perfect...it has been holding for 6 months now I guess...I was able to do this without any major surgery and now the bass is great...I do have to say one thing tho: Rickenbacker support was terrible...look, I love Ricks and have been using them for 30 years...but their customer support has become awful...I am saying that as a long time fan...I would write them, no response...finally I did get a thing back from John Hall who simply informed me that there could never be any issues via soft wood in those neck basses... that is was just IMPOSSIBLE...a totally unsubstantiated fact ect...finally, I told him I would be glad to send my 4003 if he wanted proof of soft wood issues in his products ie bass necks and was willing to look into it....never heard back from him...to me, Rickenbacker has lost the plot about customer service...

[FabGearHead]

After many years of restoring/repairing stringed instruments, please allow me to add to this thread.

MANY truss rod issues are the result of gaulling, ie. the truss rod nut binding with the washer, spacer, or whatever it may be bearing against. This can cause friction to the point of snapping off the rod, especially where a steel nut is used against an aluminum block.

A simple and effective thing to do is to remove the nut, take some paraffin wax and wax the threads of the rod end, the washer, spacer, whatever, the nut threads. and you now have a lubricated, adjustable system. I usually take a soldering iron and gently heat the part JUST until the wax flows. It is better than oil because it won't contaminate the finish or eventually dissipate.

Also, NEVER adjust truss rods on Rick basses "cold." It is very difficult to loosen the strings, adjust the nuts, re-tune, and get things right. Even with the improvements in the truss rods made over time, the tension of the strings will need to be counteracted by BACK-PRESSURE on the neck as the nuts are tightened. I place a padded block mid way under the neck and use padded clamps to hold the body of the bass down on the bench. With one hand applying downward/backward pressure on the headstock, gently tighten the nuts until snug. Check the neck with a straightedge to determine how much adjusting will be needed.

Of course, if the real issue is "neck-dive", no truss rod adjustment could compensate for high action and the previously mentioned means posted before this post are necessary to correct those issues.

Jim

[rickfan60]

Depending on the cause, there are a few things you can do.

Cause 1: The wood at the body ends of the truss rods has compressed making the rods less effective or even ineffective.

This is rare but happens. Rickenbacker truss rod ends (1984 and later) anchor directly into the wood under the fingerboard. Adjusting the rods on stubborn necks sometimes causes that wood to compress to the point where the threaded end presents itself beyond the adjuster nuts. Attempts to tighten the nuts beyond that point usually result in a snapped rod. If the rod broke just below the adjuster nut because the nut reached the end of the threads on the rod, wood compression is probably your problem. The fix is fairly simple.

1.) Remove the strings and pickguard / electronics.

2.) Lay down a protective layer of masking tape on the body from the end of the neck down to about the waist. Don't cover the neck pickup route.

3.) Extract the old rods by removing the adjuster nuts and pushing them towards the body.

4.) Find a hardwood dowel that fits snugly into the holes in the end of the neck slab where the rods were inserted. The fit should be tight but easily removed. Use sand paper to adjust as required.

5.) Clean out the holes removing any loose wood chips.

6.) This is the tricky part cut two .25 inch pieces (or so) of the dowel and drill holes through the CENTERS of the pieces large enough to accept the truss rod. The wood bits make up for the distance the original wood has compressed so adjust the length as necessary.

7.) Slide the wooden bits down the truss rods all the way to the anchors..

8.) Slide the rods back in. Use a punch and hammer to gently tap the wooden insert into the hole.

9.) Check the adjuster end. There should be at least a quarter inch of thread exposed. If not, remove the assembly and shorten the insert accordingly.

10.) With the rods loose, lay a straight-edge on the neck and check for curvature. If any it should be back bow. If the neck has up bow the problem is more complicated (see the next scenario).

11.) Reassemble the bass, tune and adjust the rods. Adjust the rods by first pulling the neck back away from the strings. This takes the string load off of the neck and make it easier for the rod to do its job. Instructions for doing this can be found on the Rickenbacker site.



Cause 2: The neck has taken on an up bow. This is often related to the problem described in Cause 1. Anytime a rod breaks at the threads during adjustment, cause 1 should be considered.

This is also rare and can be fixed if not too severe. If the up bow is slight, the fret tops can be leveled to compensate. This is almost never the case though. Most of the time it is necessary to pull the frets and level the fingerboard. A partial refinish is required for this approach. Fortunately Rickenbacker fingerboards are quite thick (3/8") and can afford to give up a small amount of wood to accomplish this.

A technique called compression fretting might work instead of or in conjunction with leveling the fingerboard. This is where the fret tangs themselves are widened and introduce a small amount of back bow by expanding the fret slots. In any even, you should consult with an experienced luthier / repairman for this approach.

[DevilsHandsAreAnIdolWorkshop]

...any suggestions?

Yes, I have a suggestion: buy a different brand.

Posting a statement like that here is not going to make me any friends.

Over the course of several months, while my "brand new" Ric sits in a case in inoperable condition, while my $150 Yamaha bass just keeps humming along, I've run across several threads like this which basically say something akin to...

"I just got this new 4003, and it's a mess because..."

Why?

What is up with Rickenbacker QC that they pump out so many duds? It's not a boutique bass, but it's hardly cheap. There should be no tail lift, there shouldn't be bridge buzzing, truss rods should not snap on the way to bringing a neck into reasonable adjustment. Electronics should not go dead simply because you plug into a jack.

I've found a respected luthier in my area who will be fixing my bass. In discussing it over the phone, he claimed he's run across quite a few over the years which have the same problem, and it's a cheap easy fix. That's good to know. It's also indicative of bad assembly practices.

Despite what I've said, I love that bass and I'm looking forward to playing it again. It's beautiful, and it still smells great. Reminds me of a Jaguar... looks good sitting in your driveway; and it better, because that's where it will spend most of its time (there and the shop).

Let the fire and brimstone descend.

[Seans]

Seems there's no hope for me then

[DevilsHandsAreAnIdolWorkshop]

I can only guess...

A lot of forum members seem to be interested in (and adept at) tinkering with their instruments. More power to 'em.

Reading stories like the OP gives someone like me pause for thought. I'm not a professional musician, I don't own 17 basses, I'm not even a bass player! This is just a hobby, not an adventure.

I've got two basses: one which came in a friggin cardboard box acquired sight unseen by way of accumulated credit card points, and another which I drooled over for years and finally took the plunge. One sits on a stand within easy reach, getting little dust bunnies around the pickups, getting knocked over once in a while, getting dinged by beer mugs and the like. The other sits in a case, mostly. One sounds pretty good for a cheap bass, has great intonation, perfect action, plays every time I pick it up. The other? Well, I'd like to say it sounds good, but I've never heard it through my new amp. The E was noticeably dull, the bridge buzzes, the action's pretty high... at least the intonation is good.

The second one cost ten times as much as the first. The second one is a lot prettier.

I'm just sayin', for those handy with a soldering iron who don't mind finishing the job the factory started, no problem. I accept that either A) I got a lemon, or B) the true cost of Ric ownership is high for the casual hobbyist. Neither case emboldens me to adjust the truss rod(s) to try to fix the dead E after reading this thread. I'm crossing my fingers and paying someone else to do all of that. They may hand me back a broken pile; I hope not.

No way would I ship it back to the factory for warranty repair. They already had their shot at it.