360/12C63: when are they going into production?

4003seagreen · Post by **4003seagreen** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:07 pm

Is Voxtalks dead? I received an e-mail that they're rewriting their software to be more secure against hackers, and that they are attempting to get their members re-registered. I plan on doing that once they send me the instructions.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:40 am

Knowing Nick's enthusiasm for the subject matter I cannot imagine Voxtalks being offline any longer than they need be.

emswife · Post by **emswife** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:32 am

They have been offline for almost a month now. Seems someone keeps trying to hack the admin software... Last word was November 22nd and then came the email where we will all have to reregister.

Why can'[t some people just leave things be? VoxTalks was of no use except to musicians and fans. Not like it has any national security use so why bother?

tonewerks · Post by **tonewerks** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:14 am

Your c58 has Taiwanese pots in it thats why they smear solder all over it - I can send you a pic if you want to see I changed mine out and put better cap ad it sounds a thousand times better

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:11 am

Here's another example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It is true, that the 325C58's have Taiwanese Alpha brand pots in them. However it's not true to say they're a terrible sounding pot. Alpha do have a fairly good reputation when it comes to potentiometers, and they offer a wide selection for a variety of applications. They are commonly used in hifi gear. It's a little strange to see them being used in a high end guitar though, especially when Ric generally uses CTS pots. Possibly because they resemble the old 50's style CTS pots??? To say that your guitar will sound better by putting the same value CTS pots in, is just not correct.

There is no problem with the quality of the reproduction Astron caps. They are using a good quality audio grade 0.047uF 400v capacitor inside. Anyone who actually knows anything about electronics would realise that tone caps are not in the signal path anyway. Tone caps are shunts. I won't comment on the small 0.0047uF cap, as it's irrelevant anyway.

For a 325C58 to sound better and more correct you would need the correct wiring, pots, and switch. That's why I offer that service.

wolfgang · Post by **wolfgang** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:29 pm

Thanks, Glen.
As an electrical engineer I would go so far to say that changing electronical devices as pots, capacitors or wires etc with equal values but other brands has little effect,if any, unless
the devices are faulty or complete ****.
Changing brands is just that kind of creativity a
non professional can do.
But if you want to change the sound of your guitar, change the guitar cable, try a short one with little capacitance, or a long one with a bigger capacitance. Or change the strings. Or, if you know what you are doing, change the circuity of your guitar, or device values, or the pickups.
But do not change brand xyz to brand abc, same value.
It isn't really worth the effort. Sorry.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:58 pm

Call this a testimonial, if you wish..

My own C58 has been converted to the original 1958 2 knob configuration using Glen's research and handywork. The result is a 325 that is not only wired as it was originally intended in early 1958, but also functions as the original 2-knob 325s did. The detail work that Glen does is, in a word, beautiful. Mine is a 2-knob guitar now, but please remember that Glen's work in this area is not limited to the 2-knob wiring configuration only. Check out his website....

For those who want to experience how a 325 sounded and functioned before(or after) John Lennon got his hands on one, I strongly suggest looking into what Glen has to offer. I feel that my own 325 is now on a much higher level of detail to accuracy and playability thanks to Glen's efforts.

tonewerks · Post by **tonewerks** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:06 pm

Why Alpha pots then? You can buy flat backed CTS pots any day of the week. Because of all the heavy solder on the back of the Alpha pots in my C58, the heat baked the inside of them! When you turn your knobs they make a scratchy sound! Scratchy BAKED pots don't SOUND superior to me. Yeah, and what is that 0.0047 doing in there?
at any point id like CTS pots

glen_l · Post by **glen_l** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:00 pm

Thanks for your compliments regarding my work John. Coming from you it means quite a lot.

To further the discussion... I have no idea why Ric used Alpha pots. It does look like they've put a lot of heat on the rear of the pots to get all that solder on. It would have been easier if they'd ground the cad plating off first perhaps. However, there would have to be a lot of heat to mechanically damage the carbon track inside.

I use the old style flat backed CTS pots in my work, and I imagine Ric could have gotten them if they wanted. Perhaps there was some bad information involved. I do recall reading on another website site that a member of the C team maintained Rickenbacker was using Alpha pots back in 1958.....

tonewerks · Post by **tonewerks** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:07 pm

That kind of "bad information" can ruin a whole website!

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:38 pm

The very large amount of solder on the back of one of my potentiometers on my 1966 Model 450 ate right through the pot and destroyed it. I am not sure if this was from the factory or sometime later. The pot, however, essentially turned to dust after 35 years or so.

fabgear · Post by **fabgear** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:20 am

I would doubt it was done at the factory Peter.

I haven't seen any 60's looms that did that other than when I saw yours posted(OUCH that was painful looking).

Usually, most of the 50's and 60's looms I have been able to see have been fairly neat, which would make sense to me since it worked it's way from an electronics basis in the first place(which is also very evident in looms such as the ones Glen is replicating with their unique solutions)

I am not sure what "blue astrons" you're talking about Joe. I think you're confusing the molding blue Sprague .047s in the 60's looms with the Astrons in the 50's ones. All the Astrons I've seen have either been black, red, yellow or white.

The solder wash backs were obviously done on those looms(I used to call them harnesses but too many conversations about these with Glen and now I'm starting to talk like him! LOL) to mask the MADE IN TAIWAN writing.

I didn't really understand the reason that they couldn't just get the same type Gibson gets with their flat backs. I wouldn't think it'd be that hard but I'm sure there's areas of this that I'm not privy to that made it hard to do so.

Looks like the replica I put together is gonna be a keeper, so I'm probably gonna snag one of those 4 control looms from ya soon Glen! The guitar's gonna be featured with some other Beatle guitars I've redone in the next Rob Taylor's Beatles to-a-tee dvd.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:43 am

I have seem wire looms from the 50's that were neat and tidy, and some that weren't..one that comes to mind was a conversion done in 1958 to a 4-knob setup; the guitar in question was originally 2-knobs and 2-switches.

On a 2-knob 1958 325 though, you don't have as much area to anchor wires to as you would on a 4-knob setup....not really more mess, but more solder...Larry's original loom and the V87 loom look neat enough.....

fabgear · Post by **fabgear** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:57 am

Yeah John, I agree, but the norm I've seen(I'm sure you've probably seen more than me) have been moreso clean rather than so soaked in solder.

I think I know which guitar you're talking about and you're right.

I guess it depends on how fun of a night the guy making the looms had the night before, LOL.....

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:03 pm

If you have solder eating through the pot, I'd put bets on the idea that Someone, Not Rick, did some resoldering, and didn't use rosin core solder, but used acid core solder instead.