So, may we introduce to you...TheBeatlesGear.com

[admin]

As with guitars, the beauty of any site is in the mindfulness of the beholder. I think there is value in any subject that has us thinking about it and sharing our ideas with others.

As time marches on, sooner or later we find ourselves in a position of ringing out the old and ringing in the new. One might argue that those sites that have the most value are those we spend our time talking about.

As always, I am both intrigued and interested by the viewpoints of others expressed here that may be opposed to my own. For it is they that often times offer the best lessons.

[k43rover]

As they stated on their page, they KNEW it would be a controversial move, and really, if I had that guitar, I wouldn't give a rat's *** who was grumpy about it- I'd just stay inside all day and gaze away! If they tossed the original parts and pieces out, that'd be another matter, but from what I read, they preserved the parts- So you can either look at a photo of it with it's original parts, or look at a photo with the swap-outs- Either way, you're just looking at a photo right?

I completely agree. I really can't understand the level of vitreol being directed against beatboy. If a chainsaw had been taken to the guitar I could understand it (although I'd still defend to the hilt the owner's right to do whatever he/she wants to do with their own property), but these are minor and completely reversible mods to the Arden guitar.

I note that the comment has (again) been made about altering the originality of this guitar. So for the record, and for those that can't be bothered to read the earlier posts in various threads, I'll repeat again that this guitar was already altered from its original state within a few months of production when Arden herself had the factory original trapeze replaced (badly) by the R. So beatboy's restoration of the trapeze actually makes it more original in that particular regard.

I see the comment above about the Arden guitar being of more historic note than Harrison's. I'd say that's breathtakingly misguided. While I love the brand as much as the next guy, I'd say had it not been for Lennon buying the 325 in Hamburg in 1960 and the factory subsequently making the most of that good fortune by getting other models including the 12 string to the band, Rickenbacker as a company/brand (if indeed it existed at all today as an independent company) would be a pale shadow of what it is. Harrison's use of one of the first 12 strings reinforced that historic connection with the Beatles and the impact of the brand elsewhere as other important musicians were directly influenced by the Beatles choice of instruments. For example, would anyone really care to argue that McGuinn would have gone out and acquired a Rick 12 had he seen a picture of Arden using her guitar if he hadn't already seen Harrison with his?

I really think people need to calm down on this one and get some perspective.

[sys700]

I breathtakingly disagree. To each his own.

[k43rover]

I breathtakingly disagree. To each his own.

...and I respect that.

However, I feel it's important to get some counterweight to the discussion on here. I'm getting the feeling that this forum, more and more, is heading toward the evangelical fanboy end of the spectrum of discussion which is of little interest to me. As I've enjoyed being a member of this board, and got a lot of value from it (and hopefully contributed some as well), I make no apology for going against the apparent weight of opionion expressed so far on this topic as I strongly feel it's unbalanced.

[johnhall]

While I love the brand as much as the next guy, I'd say had it not been for Lennon buying the 325 in Hamburg in 1960 and the factory subsequently making the most of that good fortune by getting other models including the 12 string to the band, Rickenbacker as a company/brand (if indeed it existed at all today as an independent company) would be a pale shadow of what it is.

I breathtakingly disagree with this statement. Everyone seems to overlook the fact that by the time the Beatles showed up on the scene, Rickenbacker had been a going, successful business for 33 years. Had the Beatles connection unfolded differently, the business would have adapted in some other way, perhaps with a different set of artists or gear.

While I'm happy to take history just as it is, there's also a good argument that the Beatles influence stereotyped the company and other significant opportunities may have been missed as a rersult. Hofner is probably a better example of this.

[sys700]

I agree with John. I love Rickenbacker guitars because they are so beautiful, sound so good, are of such high quality, and really stand out compared to other guitars. I'm not a huge Beatles fan or a Suzi Arden fan, so to me the first electric 12-string guitar ever made is important first and foremost as a piece of history. It belongs in a real museum, not a joke of a Beatles shrine. If there's a hint of evangelical fanboydom, it's the site in question.

[deaconblues]

It belongs in a real museum, not a joke of a Beatles shrine. If there's a hint of evangelical fanboydom, it's the site in question.

This.

[Grey]

While I'm happy to take history just as it is, there's also a good argument that the Beatles influence stereotyped the company and other significant opportunities may have been missed as a rersult.

Absolutely, I agree with this completely, espically as someone who purchased their Rickenbacker guitar at the age of 19. I would go to the music stores to try and get as much information as I could and everyone would always say "oh you must be a pretty big Beatles fan huh, I bet your parents listened to it" and things of that nature, and it was very irritating because i'm not a big fan. I'd put Rubber Soul in one of my top 10 lists because I appretiate good music but being automatically lumped into a specific catagory just by my association with a particular instrument is and has always been annoying.

There was a thread some time ago about the Beatles' influence on musicians who who played Rickenbacker guitars and people went as far as to imply that by association any headlining musician who has ever played a Rickenbacker instrument has been either directly or in-directly influenced by the Beatles, like, it's impossible for them to play these instruments for their own reasons, it must just be a Beatles thing.

Rickenbacker has enough of their own history and their instruments have been used by a wealth of talented musicians but it's downplayed (and that's an understatement) when compared to their association with the Beatles.

[k43rover]

While I love the brand as much as the next guy, I'd say had it not been for Lennon buying the 325 in Hamburg in 1960 and the factory subsequently making the most of that good fortune by getting other models including the 12 string to the band, Rickenbacker as a company/brand (if indeed it existed at all today as an independent company) would be a pale shadow of what it is.

I breathtakingly disagree with this statement. Everyone seems to overlook the fact that by the time the Beatles showed up on the scene, Rickenbacker had been a going, successful business for 33 years. Had the Beatles connection unfolded differently, the business would have adapted in some other way, perhaps with a different set of artists or gear.

While I'm happy to take history just as it is, there's also a good argument that the Beatles influence stereotyped the company and other significant opportunities may have been missed as a rersult. Hofner is probably a better example of this.

Many thanks for taking the time to comment John. Certainly adds greatly to any discussion on here.

I agree it's a very valid point to reflect on what road your company might have taken had the Beatles connection not been there.

However, it's a clear matter of sales record what direct impact the Beatles endorsement of particular brands (be it guitars, drums, amplifiers etc) had in the wake of their explosion onto the international music scene and in particular after the first Sullivan performance. I appreciate that their influence casts a long shadow and still directly influences the business so many years later (I recently noted the beautiful picture of the row of 360/12C63 Harrison reissues in the factory on your Facebook page).

I can well imagine that looking at it today you could reflect that the Beatles connection may have been something of a double edged sword over the longer term. However, I can only imagine that your father if asked in 1964/5 what he thought about the Beatles use of Rickenbacker guitars, and its potential impact on your company's business development, would have been exclusively focussing on the massive upside in spite of any short term headaches he might have faced ramping production. I can't imagine any guitar company at that time being anything other than delighted with their endorsement and the value that the Beatles must have brought with them back then.

I guess it then comes down to a debate around how effectively your company managed the massive short term impetus from the Beatles impact and translated that into a longer term investment/growth strategy to include product diversification etc. That's also a great "what if" debate which I'm sure we all have our own views on.

[collin]

While I'm happy to take history just as it is, there's also a good argument that the Beatles influence stereotyped the company and other significant opportunities may have been missed as a rersult.

Absolutely, I agree with this completely, espically as someone who purchased their Rickenbacker guitar at the age of 19. I would go to the music stores to try and get as much information as I could and everyone would always say "oh you must be a pretty big Beatles fan huh, I bet your parents listened to it" and things of that nature, and it was very irritating because i'm not a big fan. I'd put Rubber Soul in one of my top 10 lists because I appretiate good music but being automatically lumped into a specific catagory just by my association with a particular instrument is and has always been annoying.

There was a thread some time ago about the Beatles' influence on musicians who who played Rickenbacker guitars and people went as far as to imply that by association any headlining musician who has ever played a Rickenbacker instrument has been either directly or in-directly influenced by the Beatles, like, it's impossible for them to play these instruments for their own reasons, it must just be a Beatles thing.

Rickenbacker has enough of their own history and their instruments have been used by a wealth of talented musicians but it's downplayed (and that's an understatement) when compared to their association with the Beatles.

I hear you there! Being on the younger end of the spectrum for this market, I never watched the Beatles on Ed Sullivan and became infatuated with emulating their every move (and gear choice), which is obviously the case with many boomers.

While I'm not a huge Beatles fan, ironically the only Beatles music I really like was made years after George & John stopped using Rickenbackers. I'm sure they influenced many people towards playing Rickenbackers, perhaps even the people that influenced me to play Rickenbackers. Yet I can't credit them with direct influence and I know i'm not alone there.

I can see from John's perspective how it would be a disservice to RIC to give the Beatles 100% credit for the success of Rickenbacker as a brand, even with the huge contribution that they did make to the brand's success. That contribution must be acknowledged, but who knows what else could have been?

In the case of this Arden guitar, I admire the aspects of the guitar that were historical and note-worthy before George Harrison ever held a similar instrument in his hands. Most significantly the 12-string headstock routing... it seems unnecessary to downplay this prototype's history by tarting it up like a Beatlebacker, it stands on its own. Hope the guitar is right again one day.

That's my $0.02 anyway, and I'm done with the subject.

[jdogric12]

IBTL

[k43rover]

IBTL

...oh I don't know, I'm not sure this particular horse is quite dead yet...

[sys700]

[cjj]

[k43rover]

That's a totally offensive picture Rod...you should be ashamed of yourself - can't you see the pickguards are completely the wrong shape on that guitar.