New '81 R.E.M. footage - earliest footage to surface!

[electrofaro]

Thanks again, Werner, for sharing your formidable R.E.M. knowledge!

Knowledge? Me? Nah, you must be confusing lots of text with knowledge

As little as 3 years ago I knew the whole IRS and Warner catalogue systems from the top of my head. Could tell you a lot by just having that number! I used to collect every R.E.M. release... then I had a change of heart (reminds me of the guy who had a change of hearth) and started to focus on having every song mix/alternative version available in the best possible quality. My own collection's been reduced to the basics, really. I'm going for quality over quantity, although I must admit that since starting my current job it's grinded to a halt due to lack of time.

I must put Songs for a Green World on the record player - it is mightily nice to listen to, you know. The Pageant demo for Cuyahoga and I Believe are two of my fav demos.

I actually watched this gig again - I've never been into music videos, DVDs, tv broadcasts (Anton is the guy at Murmurs.com you want for those - his collection's huge - can't remember his username right now) - but this is a highly entertaining gig.

Is that bass made of plexiglas? As in transparent, and ultramegaheavy? My avatar shows it, I've always been a PLB fan, never really payed much attention to what basses or drums were used!

[electrofaro]

Also of interest were a few tracks that later appeared with new lyrics on albums as late as "Lifes Rich Pageant." This set captures all the raw energy of the band in embryo. Thanks, again, David for posting.

I never knew "Get on Their Way" (What if We Give It Away's predecessor) was already THAT old, actually. I learned something I did not know by watching this video - indeed, many thanks David!

[Sweden]

Also of interest were a few tracks that later appeared with new lyrics on albums as late as "Lifes Rich Pageant." This set captures all the raw energy of the band in embryo. Thanks, again, David for posting.

I never knew "Get on Their Way" (What if We Give It Away's predecessor) was already THAT old, actually. I learned something I did not know by watching this video - indeed, many thanks David!

Lifes Rich Pageant included a number of old songs worked up in the studio for that release, since the band for the first time didn't have enough songs written before going in. Just a Touch dates back to 1980, as does Get On Their Way/What if we give it away. Mystery To Me, All the Right Friends and Wait, all from 1980, were demoed for LRP but eventually scrapped. They of course also included a cover in the form of Superman and picked up Hyena which was written in 1984 but left off Fables in 1985.

As is apparent from the LRP demos sessions, found on the deluxe edition, they seem to essentially only having had one one single new "proper" song written for that album that they didn't end up using. (King of Birds that later showed up on Document.) That's how short on material they appear to have been.

Here's the deluxe LRP album btw: http://open.spotify.com/album/1G95bEVJwyXeqzLdbzkREi

The Dan Armstrong bass is indeed made out of plexiglass, and had changeable pickups in a pretty interesting fashion.


This article has some pictures with Mike playing the Dan Armstrong bass also seen in the 688 footage, these are from december 1980:
http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/16 ... ght_column

But interestingly, he also used at leass two other basses in 1980, here what looks like a Mustang bass in (presumably) late 1980:


And his first one seems to have been a Hofner. This is from May 1980:
http://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/nieuws ... /129361214

Since Peter is seen with his Tele in December of 1980, but the Rick in the 688 footage from Atlanta in February 1981, it must have been pretty new at that point.

[electrofaro]

Since Peter is seen with his Tele in December of 1980, but the Rick in the 688 footage from Atlanta in February 1981, it must have been pretty new at that point.

I somehow remember Peter saying in an interview his new guitar had to be black when he needed a replacement for what we now know to be the 375 MG. Did Peter ever state why he moved from Teles to Rickies, though? I wonder what the price difference between a Tele and (2nd hand 60s) Rickie was back in those days - who knows if that might have been a major factor, eh!

I once had an Excel sheet with all songs R.E.M. did, their own material, demos, working titles, covers, if live versions existed and from when... I lost it one notebook ago. It also listed if the song was available on any release like bootleg or IRS, Warner...

[Folkie]

David,

Once again you've floored me with the breadth and detail of your R.E.M. knowledge. We need people like you and Werner on this forum!

I didn't know that the band were short on new songs when they recorded "Lifes Rich Pageant." Nor did I know that some early staples, like "Mystery to Me," "All the Right Friends," and "Wait," were slated to appear on "Pageant" and then scrapped. Am I correct that "Just a Touch" was originally "Now That You're Gone"?

I think it was a wise move to put "Hyena" on "Pageant" instead of "Fables," as it's one of those songs that just didn't fit the atmosphere of the earlier record.

By the way, I was surprised to hear "Gardening at Night" and "Radio Free Europe" on the 1981 set list. I had the impression that those two songs were written closer to the time when "Chronic Town" came out the following year. Can you or Werner tell me exactly when each of the two was written? (Did the Hibtone single version of RFE come out in 1981?)

Thanks for the link to the "Lifes Rich Pageant" Deluxe Edition. I'll have to dig into that as soon as I finish writing this. By the way, I have a question that's been nagging me for years, and that I think you may have the expertise to answer. Is the main guitar on the master take of "I Believe" a 12'er?

Robert

[Sweden]

I once had an Excel sheet with all songs R.E.M. did, their own material, demos, working titles, covers, if live versions existed and from when... I lost it one notebook ago. It also listed if the song was available on any release like bootleg or IRS, Warner...

Here's something along the same lines, Werner. I'm sure you've seen this before, compiled by Ole Skjefte and Stig Isaksen:
http://home.online.no/~inybak/thatbeat/ ... psongs.htm
Doesn't contain info on releases though.

And of course this, although it is not entirely complete:
http://www.remchronicle.com/songs-2/song-performances/

[Sweden]

David,
Once again you've floored me with the breadth and detail of your R.E.M. knowledge. We need people like you and Werner on this forum!
I didn't know that the band were short on new songs when they recorded "Lifes Rich Pageant." Nor did I know that some early staples, like "Mystery to Me," "All the Right Friends," and "Wait," were slated to appear on "Pageant" and then scrapped. Am I correct that "Just a Touch" was originally "Now That You're Gone"?
I think it was a wise move to put "Hyena" on "Pageant" instead of "Fables," as it's one of those songs that just didn't fit the atmosphere of the earlier record.
By the way, I was surprised to hear "Gardening at Night" and "Radio Free Europe" on the 1981 set list. I had the impression that those two songs were written closer to the time when "Chronic Town" came out the following year. Can you or Werner tell me exactly when each of the two was written? (Did the Hibtone single version of RFE come out in 1981?)
Thanks for the link to the "Lifes Rich Pageant" Deluxe Edition. I'll have to dig into that as soon as I finish writing this. By the way, I have a question that's been nagging me for years, and that I think you may have the expertise to answer. Is the main guitar on the master take of "I Believe" a 12'er?
Robert

Thank you, Robert! Nerdiness in abundance!

The concept of the band being short on songs in 1986 is described more in detail in certain R.E.M. books, but I think the main explanation has been that they toured so extensively in 1985 they really didn't have time to write much. They had also previously written more stuff in soundchecks and sort of "while on tour", but possibly a more professional touring schedule with interviews etc made that more difficult?

I have never seen Just a Touch referred to with any other title, and I am fairly sure that it has it's final titlein written setlists from before 1986. It could perhaps be a misintepreted title on a bootleg somewhere? In any case is it believed to have been played at the first very first show on 4 April 1980, so it was probably written shortly before that.

That video footage is the first ever recorded live performance of Radio Free Europe. It was however recorded at the band's first ever recording session two weeks before this footage, on 8 February 1981, so it is likely to have been written just before that. It was not performed at the show they played on 30 January 1981. The February session has never been released, and the song was later re-recorded in April for the hibtone release in July 1981.

Gardening has been reported as being written in the summer of 1980, and was in any case performed on 4 October 1980.

I have no idea about the guitar on I Believe though. The E-string riff sounds too twangy for a 12-string, doesn't it?

/David

[electrofaro]

I once had an Excel sheet with all songs R.E.M. did, their own material, demos, working titles, covers, if live versions existed and from when... I lost it one notebook ago. It also listed if the song was available on any release like bootleg or IRS, Warner...

Here's something along the same lines, Werner. I'm sure you've seen this before, compiled by Ole Skjefte and Stig Isaksen:
http://home.online.no/~inybak/thatbeat/ ... psongs.htm
Doesn't contain info on releases though.

And of course this, although it is not entirely complete:
http://www.remchronicle.com/songs-2/song-performances/

Ah, I remember that first link - it was the basis for mine. That was went I worked for a certain german car manufacturer and had nothing to do for most of the day so spend my time on reading online about R.E.M.

The Timeline is and always has been a good resource - I still browse it for some info every now and then when I forgot when I saw them do which song live! Some times I wish other bands had something like this! I guess R.E.M. fans are so nerdy to take note of every detail

We need people like you and Werner on this forum!

Ever since I first went to school I started this habit of NEVER taking notes, so I do everything from memory. Now, memory is not reliable I tell you, especially mine as it got bumped around in several car crashes!

I think it was a wise move to put "Hyena" on "Pageant" instead of "Fables," as it's one of those songs that just didn't fit the atmosphere of the earlier record.

It would be as much out of place as Auctioneer (Another Engine), imo.

Is the main guitar on the master take of "I Believe" a 12'er?

Well, go to Spotify and listen to the demo on the Pageant Anniv Edition. To me the demo sounds like 6 and 12er with the 12er's high jangly notes really sticking out. Sometimes I wish they included the version without Michael's partial lyrics (it's available on some demo bootlegs - lost that silver CD, still hate myself for it).

I have no idea about the guitar on I Believe though. The E-string riff sounds too twangy for a 12-string, doesn't it?

When did Peter get his first Gretsch? I always thought the album version has a distinct Gretsch tone in those first parts after the banjo... never been sure the banjo's not in the whole mix except just the intro (Michael said something in liner notes or an interview about it).

[Folkie]

Thanks for all the information, David! I really wish I could have made it to one of their shows in 1985, as "Fables," for me, was their finest moment. But I was just 14 years old when the album came out, and didn't know about indie-rock.

I believe I owned one bootleg that listed the title of that song (incorrectly) as "Now That You're Gone." I think "What if We Give it Away?" on "Pageant" has much stronger lyrics than the earlier version, "Why Don't They Get on Their Way?" Although I think "Pageant" is one of their strongest records overall, there is a little filler (in the form of "Underneath the Bunker" and "Swan Swan H") possibly because, as you noted, they were having a dry spell as far as songwriting goes.

That's way cool that the You Tube footage you shared with us contains the first live performance of "Radio Free Europe." So it was written right around February 8th, 1981. Thanks for clearing up my confusion. Likewise with "Gardening at Night." I had absolutely no idea it was written that early. I think it's one of their prettiest songs, and it's really nice that they played it at their Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction. My favorite version is still the one on "Chronic Town," because of the lovely 12-string shimmer. As for "I Believe," it could be a 12-string, or alternatively multiple 6-string overdubs (You do know that two 6-string tracks makes a 12, right? ). Either way, plenty of jangle, and not (to my ear) very "twangy."

I always enjoy reading your posts, because you obviously have your facts straight about everything R.E.M., and you always teach me new things. You've done a great service to the forum by posting that early footage.

All best,

Robert

[Folkie]

Thanks for the input, Werner. You have a really good ear. I'll get back to you after I listen to that demo.

[Sweden]

Thanks for all the information, David! I really wish I could have made it to one of their shows in 1985, as "Fables," for me, was their finest moment. But I was just 14 years old when the album came out, and didn't know about indie-rock.

Hehe, I was five years old then... My first ever birthday was the day before this footage was taken.
But, alas, I've had time to catch up. Combining a slight obsessiveness with R.E.M. with an interest in guitars and music gear.

I also thought it amazing that they played Gardening at the Hall of Fame introduction. And what a version!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl5TdBcAUts

[Kingbreaker]

Like the early Beatles, I always consider early REM a LIVE band first and foremost. They've always pretty good about playing stuff from the back catalog in live shows. I got to see them for the Document, Green, and Up tours.

- The Murmur deluxe version show ('83 Toronto) is fantastic.

- The Reckoning deluxe show ('84 Chicago - Aragon Ballroom) is great as well. BUT - to my ears Mike Mill's bass tone sounds absolutely horrible. Plasticky, thuddy, and flatulent, not at all interesting or complex as on the albums. I wonder if this is an artifact of the recording/remixing process or the bass actually sounded that bad. Anyone happen to know what bass Mills was playing for this show?

[jdawe]

(You do know that two 6-string tracks makes a 12, right? ).

Yes, and you can get the same effect by overdubbing three bass tracks!

[jdawe]

I also thought it amazing that they played Gardening at the Hall of Fame introduction. And what a version!

Very nice indeed! Thanks for posting.

[electrofaro]

I'm sure David has the info on which bass Mike (I always want to write MEM) played at that gig, or during that time, John. I've been quite obsessed with the band myself, but actually Accelerate tuned that down a bit. Loved the Dublin gigs, didn't like the album very much.

HoF (no, not tht creepy Hoff) must have been the only time Peter ever threw an amp from stage? I mean, does anyone know why he threw the Vox off stage? Did he get sued by the guy who got hit in the leg?