4004 Tone Question. . .

[Kingbreaker]

So my two favorite bass tones of all time are

1) Early Mike Mills of REM - for the first three albums

2) Macca, Rain/Paperback Writer.

I won't try to describe these except to say that they actually sound not TOO far off from each other, but Mike Mills has a much more articulate top end with the same underlying fundamental "blooming" sound, if that makes any sense. At least to my ears. I also like the Geddy / Squire sound, but that's a bit more aggressive than I normally would get.


How close could I get to these tones with a 4004?
- stock?
- with different strings?
- with wiring mods and pickup swaps?


The reason I am attracted to the 4004 - ergonomics and cosmetics.

[T28]

I think that Dane's 4004 VVT mod would get you there.
Gets you pretty close to the 4001/3 sound when put in split coil mode.

[woodyng]

John, Mill's sound with the 4001 on those early REM records is one of my favorite Ric bass tones. I think you could probably get something similar with the coil taps,altho i would say to go with a Laredo rather than the Cii. My laredo seems to sound a bit more like the traditional,probably the similar-to-a-4001 body wing construction and laquered fretboard contribute to that. Then again,the differences may be too small to notice.....but there seems to be subtle differences in ADSR between the cii and laredos.....at least in the 2 i own.

[spongebob]

I previously owned a couple of 4004's (really regret letting them go....but needs must at the time...)

I found the Cheyenne especially to be almost like a 4003 on steroids - in a positive way - great Ric tone, just hotter, with much more presence. Almost like an 'active' bass in power when A/B'd it against a (I think) 2009 4003. Agree on the above that a Laredo carries a slighter 'lighter' tone.

I'd love another one day, but prices are out of reach now!

[Kopfjaeger]

Hmm, I've only owned one 4004 and it's a Cii. I find it has a bit of Rickenbacker 4001/3 bite but with way more foundation. I do hate the fact that I cant control the volume and tone of each pup separately. I've been toying with a VVT control set up but it being a one off bass, I'm not really sure If I want to go that route with her. If I owned another 4004, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I do like the tone more from the 4001/3 and the 4004 is just different. Not in a bad way. The HB1 pups are really powerful and giver the 4004 a different tone. Still Rickenbacker, only different.

Sepp

[cassius987]

I rarely see it mentioned, but also consider simply rewiring the HB-1s from series to parallel. This produces a much more open, 4002-like sound and is far more reminiscent of single coil than series while still being humbucking.

[Kopfjaeger]

I rarely see it mentioned, but also consider simply rewiring the HB-1s from series to parallel. This produces a much more open, 4002-like sound and is far more reminiscent of single coil than series while still being humbucking.

Hmm, now this sounds very interesting! Details/how to??

Sepp

[jps]

I rarely see it mentioned, but also consider simply rewiring the HB-1s from series to parallel. This produces a much more open, 4002-like sound and is far more reminiscent of single coil than series while still being humbucking.

I should do that; I had Joe set up my Zons he built for me that way.

[jps]

I found the Cheyenne especially to be almost like a 4003 on steroids - in a positive way - great Ric tone, just hotter, with much more presence.

I agree, going by the Cii I used to own and the Laredo I have (and others, too) the Laredo is the way to go. The Cii sounded nice but was a bit too warm, dark, heavy sounding in it's stock form for me, it opened up considerably when I put scatterwound toasters in it, along with the VVT mod (I think I was the first here to do so, IIRC). I'd do the VVT mod on my Ruby (I already have the harness to drop in the bass) but as it was a NAMM Show display bass I am reluctant to do so, same as Sepp feels regarding his TV Yellow 4004.

[cassius987]

Hmm, now this sounds very interesting! Details/how to??

It's very simple because it's just the "other" (proper) way of wiring a humbucker. In both cases the coils must be out of phase or you will get some non-humbucking, thin-sounding results. Remember the magnet "flips" the phase of the string-based signal while leaving the interfering signal (i.e. hum) unchanged, which is why this approach works (much like RWRP). To go from series to parallel, you need to disconnect the end-to-end linkage (it's usually wires 2+4) and do an out-of-phase parallel lead and ground. I believe my approach was 1+4 for hot and 2+3+shield for ground. You've done it right if you meet the following three conditions: 1) impedance is 25% of what it was in series, 2) humbucking is working and 3) it sounds awesome (okay that bit's subjective).

I should do that; I had Joe set up my Zons he built for me that way.

That is how I have the HB-1s wired in my 4003/5 converted by Paul W. I tried series out but parallel really does the low B justice. I couldn't be happier with the tone! It's really quite similar to the 4002 pickup in my 4003FL.

[cjj]

Hmmm, another switch combination for my 4004... Now how to fit it in....

[Kopfjaeger]

Joshua,

So no new pots or knobs and switches in your mod? Pretty easy to switch back as well? Sounds like something I'd be interested in doing. The one off 4004 is bone stock, albeit it's very different from another 4004, besides its twin. I could never mod it to the point of doing anything that could not be put back to original condition with ease.

UI do like the thought of sounding like the pups on my 4002. That has me very interested since I love the sound of my 4002, although the pups are in much different positions.

I have toyed with selling her since I was not "in love" with her tone. This mod may change all that.
Sepp

[rickenbrother]

I let Paulie's brother, Harlan-Ray try my Ruby 4004Cii after he played a 4003 at the last So Cal jam. After he finished playing it, I asked him what he thought of it.
He said, "IT"S LOUD!!" Then he also told me that he liked the way it sounds and plays.
I got many compliments on it's looks and tone at the Christmas party Dirty Bison played at this past Friday night. Since the guitars were acoustic and our keyboardist used a piano, all I played through, was my old little Gallien-Krueger MB200. I went from thumb plucking, palm muted double bass tone to J Bass like growl by changing my playing technique, pickup and tone settings. Once again, one of my 4004s impressed me.

[cassius987]

So no new pots or knobs and switches in your mod? Pretty easy to switch back as well?

All you do is change how the pickup connects to the switch/pots by manipulating the four-conductor wiring. Switching back is as easy as the mod. I would say it's a 5-minute job with a hot soldering iron.

[Kopfjaeger]

Joey,

OK, I'll bring my 4004 as well as my drop D tuned 4003 to rehearsal on Friday. I won't say a word about the differences in the two instruments other than the drop tuning. I'll gauge what their reaction to the different tones are and proceed from there.

Sepp