What cables are you using?

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:29 pm

I've been told that a cable plays a big factor in the sound in addition to picks, strings, technique, etc. For years, I've been using generic cables, but I'm starting to not get a good sound from my setup, and I'm wondering if the cables are a problem. So, in need of some decent cables, I'm interested for what's working for you guys and why?

deaconblues · Post by **deaconblues** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:41 pm

I think it's snake oil. You should really be fine with any old cable, as long as it's built well enough to resist breakage at the plug end.

Have you ever heard about this experiment?

IMO, if you are getting bad tone, simplify. Yank out the pedals and just play a quality guitar through a quality amp.

And don't forget the most important tone enhancer of all -- practice.

collin · Post by **collin** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:45 pm

Black ones with metal plugs.

kiramdear · Post by **kiramdear** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:52 pm

Just look for good material and workmanship.

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:52 pm

deaconblues wrote:I think it's snake oil. You should really be fine with any old cable, as long as it's built well enough to resist breakage at the plug end.

Have you ever heard about this experiment?

IMO, if you are getting bad tone, simplify. Yank out the pedals and just play a quality guitar through a quality amp.

And don't forget the most important tone enhancer of all -- practice.

Thanks for the response, Dan! While typing this thread, I was googling, and I believe the Wah-Wah pedal might be the culprit to my lousy tone. I hear that unmodded Wahs can be tone-suckers, and are on even when off. When I get home this evening, I'll be yanking it out the chain and see what happens. FWIW, the amp I use is a Deluxe Reverb and it usually is set at about a 2 or 3 volume level.

collin wrote:Black ones with metal plugs.

Very Paul McCartney-esque response

kiramdear wrote:Just look for good material and workmanship.

I've noticed and read that a few members here use coiled Vox cables. Hmm...

deaconblues · Post by **deaconblues** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:58 pm

JakeK wrote: FWIW, the amp I use is a Deluxe Reverb and it usually is set at about a 2 or 3 volume level.

Well there's your problem; that amp should be running on at least 11.

teb · Post by **teb** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:04 pm

I have stock, off-the-shelf cables like the basic Monsters, a couple of those more expensive cables that are specifically designed for bass frequency instruments, a couple very expensive custom-built cables where I chose the best components available and even a couple left over from about 1972 and starting to get a bit rusty-looking. I can't tell any sonic differences between any of them. As long as the ends aren't shorting out or cutting out when you move around, they all seem to work just fine. As long as your cable still makes a good conection I doubt you would see any difference with a new one. The ad hype always makes it sound like you'll see some drastic difference in your sound (like you do when replacing old strings with new ones). Don't bet the ranch on it, because it isn't likely to happen and probably won't even be noticed.

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:17 pm

JakeK wrote:
I've noticed and read that a few members here use coiled Vox cables. Hmm...

Jake, I'll vouch for the Vox coiled cables

....
They hold up to wear and tear pretty well and are reminiscent of another era.

I also use a Monster cable for connecting to the amp from the pedal board.... they are warranted for life. I just took one back to a Guitar Center, 2 weeks ago, that was having problems (after 5 or 6 years of use) and I had no receipt or anything after the lapse of years, and they gave me full credit. So Monster brand stand by their full-life time warranty.

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:17 pm

Dan: As awesome as the amp does sound cranked, if I took it to the highest level regularly, I'd be thrown on the street!

Dan's article and Todd's response both gave me the answer I was looking for.

8mileshigher wrote:Jake, I'll vouch for the Vox coiled cables ....
They hold up to wear and tear pretty well and are reminiscent of another era.

You were one of the members I was referring to.

jps · Post by **jps** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:54 pm

I do have a few Monster cables (some were gifts to me) but the ones I use regularly are Whirlwind cables; I have one that is from the mid '70s that still works and sounds fine (it gives me that '70s sound!

).

Whirlwind is quality stuff at very reasonable prices.

cjj · Post by **cjj** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:56 pm

OK, I'll try to keep the Techno-Nerd™ stuff to a minimum...

Yes, the cable can indeed affect the tone! Well, theoretically anyway. A cable consists of 2 pieces of wire that run near each other for some distance. Any time you have to hunks of metal near each other, you get some capacitance between them. The closer they are, the higher the capacitance, the longer they are, the more capacitance you get.

So, what does this mean? Well, it's kind of like the tone control cap, the more capacitance, the more high frequencies you bleed off. So, a high capacitance cable will "kill" your high end.

Now what about reality? Well, a decent cable such as Canare GS-6 will have around 49pF per foot. So, a 20 foot cable will look like an extra 980pF cap across your pickup. What does this do? Well, assuming the guitar impedance is 15k ohms (DC resistance of an HB-1), this will make a low pass filter with a cutoff freq. of 10.8kHz, meaning your signal is down to half its level at 10.8kHz and drops off above that. But you really don't get a lot of signal above 10kHz anyway, so it would be hard to actually hear it. A lower resistance pickup would push the cutoff higher, 23kHz for a 7k pickup like a toaster.

Now, something like 12 gauge lamp cord has a mere 18pF per foot so it will actually be better than nice instrument co-ax, right? Well, the other thing that comes into play with an instrument cable is noise immunity. A co-axial cable has the return conductor wrapped all the way around the signal wire to shield it. By doing this you trade off more capacitance (more wire close together) for less noise. Better shielding (more complete coverage) will give more capacitance and lower noise, so in general, more expensive cables can often have higher capacitance due to better shielding. But this varies all over the map and depends on the insulator materials and geometries (spacing between conductor and shield) too. I'd guess most actual cable is pretty similar these days.

And then there's the issue of movement between the center conductor and the shield. This varies the capacitance and can cause "microphonic" noise when you move around.

So, yes, better cables can give you a better sound, but probably more from a shielding and microphonic noise perspective than from signal loss. And even that, you'll probably never notice.

So really, all that matters is how well the cable is made and the warranty. Will it hold up to your use or will it fall apart? All of the magic hype like oxygen free copper and such is just that, hype. Gold plating won't help your sound, but might make better connections due to less corrosion... until you wear through the couple of micro-inches of gold plating and get down to the base layer of nickel, which is what the rest of the connectors have on them...

8mileshigher · Post by **8mileshigher** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:19 pm

CJ ---- thanks for the good factual explanation about capacitance and cable length, etc.

There were lots of snake-oil salesmen and displays at NAMM, with all their gimmicky cable stuff, who would not appreciate a truth-in-advertising guy like you, letting the wind out of their sails .

JakeK · Post by **JakeK** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:29 pm

CJ - Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for!

cjj · Post by **cjj** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:32 pm

Yeah, I had a friend who delved into the high end audiophile market a while back and he had some great tales of what they had at their shows, perhaps NAMM is just as bad. I mean things like cable conditioners, which run a special signal through your cables to break them in... Sheesh!

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:05 pm

I've been getting a lot of comments lately about my tone after my gigs - just last Saturday, a particularly drunken, stumbling, sweaty girl who just danced for four hours really seemed to take issue with the high capacitance resulting from my choice of a coily Vox cable; I tried to tell her how reliable the cable was, and how they were merely hearing a soundman's interpretation of my rig since they were dancing in the back of the house all night; in response, she puked on my shoes and asked for a ride home. How could I say no? We debated the merits of oxygen-free copper until the sun came up.

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