Trade Mark/Trade Dress... And Solid Bodies...

[jcreasy]

1. Can someone share some sort of short summary about how Rickenbacker pursued and protected the company trade marks and trade dress? I am just kinda curious about this because you see all the Fender and Gibson knock-offs... Seems to me that Ricks may have been harder to copy in some respects but easier in others... (truss rod cover)... Like I said, curious about this and betting other folks here are curious too. Not looking to start a debate or flame or anything, just sort of a brief chronological sketch of how that all unpacked.

2. There is a PIC of a Rick solid body in one of the history books that (as I recall) was a FireGlo, 2 Pick-Up, solid body that had a Fender shape, but sharper horns (more Rick style). Anyone know what I am referring to? Any information on that? (Could be a real fun PRS/LP alternative with the HB1s and stuff).

Thanks for any feedback,

JKC

[cjj]

It's pretty simple, if you want to protect your trademarks & trade dress, you have to go after people who infringe. RIC did, and still does. Fender didn't...

[jcreasy]

Got that part of it, but I was just wondering about the history of it all... Did Fender and Gibson sit quiet? Did Rick sense it coming or were the Rick copies later? Was Mr. Hall Sr. particularly vigilant or was there a big event? How did that all unfold?

I'm curious and I'll bet other readers/posters might be as well.

Thanks,

JKC

[jdawe]

There is a PIC of a Rick solid body in one of the history books that (as I recall) was a FireGlo, 2 Pick-Up, solid body that had a Fender shape, but sharper horns (more Rick style). Anyone know what I am referring to? Any information on that? (Could be a real fun PRS/LP alternative with the HB1s and stuff).

The 430 and the later 230 both have somewhat Telecaster-like body shapes, but both came with single-coll pickups and I don't think either were available in FireGlo. I believe the fancier 250 and 260 models did come in FireGlo but I think they had the same single-coil pickups as the 230 (which were not standard Hi-Gains and looked a bit like HB1s). Here's a pic of the 260:



The 250 was similar but had no pickguard and 4 knobs rather than only 2.

I can't think of another production model that fits your description. If the 250/260 aren't what you had in mind, you may have been thinking of a one-off or prototype from the RIC museum.

[kennyhowes]

I think the one JC refers to is the one-off at RIC HQ that's Fireglo and is thick like a PRS Hollowbody II. As seen in the Smith book towards the back.

And I think it was either John or perhaps F.C. Hall that was on the ball with the trademark stuff. Either way, it's a case of y'snooze y'lose, regarding Fender's lack of control over their own situation.

[jcreasy]

Thanks, guys... It was not a 400 series or the 200 series... Kenny may be onto something. I remember the PIC but cannot find it anywhere on net. I'll keep looking. I just remember thinking it was really slick.

As for the Trade Mark/Trade Dress... I was just wondering when that happened, or started to happen... If someone noticed them in the 70's or later or when? I know I was in London in '92 and the shops were full of copies. I think the first time I really noticed copies was in the 90's but that may be because of internet proliferation... I saw tons of Strato copies and Les Paul copies from much earlier.

But weren't there Rick bass copies earlier... By Ibanez, even?

[johnhall]

My dad never filed a trademark in his life.

Gibson and especially Fender were slow to file trademarks, as well as police all of the copies that were openly sold. When they tried to file new, more specific marks, they were granted but the various "infringers" were able to have the marks rescinded since they had essentially been public domain for years.

During the first six years after issuance, trademarks are a bit like wet concrete but there's a filing done at that point which turns it into solid granite. In fact, you'll see us in federal court shortly going after someone, using a trademark that only more recently was "granitized".

[kennyhowes]

Good info from JH.

By the way, I think the guitar that Jimbo is referring to is in this photo, just to the left of the Bantar:



I found this picture on the internet - that's the Vox AC15TB I used to have. This is from the time frame that Hautewerk rehearsed at RIC HQ.

[jps]

What's the bass cabinet under the LM II?

[jcreasy]

Thanks, guys.

JKC

[johnhall]

What's the bass cabinet under the LM II?

It's a custom cabinet from the days when we made amps. Two 10's plus an 18, wonderful sound. Very interesting baffle and port design which was done by George Cole, our former amp Chief Engineer and a great bass player. This cabinet used to reside in our electronics lab.

But now way more cabinet than necessary!