Fair Trade?

[ch willie]

A lefty 1978 4001s un-modded for an un-modded 4001 C64? I don't know if I'd want to make the swap. But how fair a trade for each side?

[RickyBubba]

POssibly...depends on condition of both and if cases are involved. If you have pictures, you could get more discussions going.

[sloop_john_b]

The c64 is worth more IMO.

[jdogric12]

Hmmm... idk... '70's lefty S must be p rare.

[ch willie]

I don't have a good set of pictures of it. This photo doesn't give you detail, but here is one:

[Kopfjaeger]

Ok where is the 4001S?? That looks like a straight up 4001. Bound body with triangular fret markers.

Sepp

[jdogric12]

Yep. In absence of S-ness, I defer to JB's assessment.

[ch willie]

It was sold new to me in 1978 as a 4001s. It has the stereo plug. I don't know a lot about the history of Rics. I'm not really sure I'd want a trade. The bass has a lot of sentimental value. I am thinking of a pickup change. I'd like to get as close as I can to McCartney's tone on Sgt. Pepper and Wings Over America.

[sloop_john_b]

It was sold new to me in 1978 as a 4001s. It has the stereo plug. I don't know a lot about the history of Rics. I'm not really sure I'd want a trade. The bass has a lot of sentimental value. I am thinking of a pickup change. I'd like to get as close as I can to McCartney's tone on Sgt. Pepper and Wings Over America.

Have you tried flatwound strings?

[bassduke49]

There is a lot of misunderstanding of what constitutes what we now call an "S" model. RIC didn't help in this regard as even when it was available, the unbound, "dot neck," twin-pickup bass was never listed (and therefore not given nomenclature) on official price sheets until the very end of the line. Early on, this model was often referred to in company records as the "4000+1" indicating it was built with the same trim options as the single-pickup 4000 but has the extra ("+1") pickup. This trim option was ordered by England's Rose Morris who gave the bass its own designation, "1999." It seems the majority of surviving basses from the 1960s with these options were indeed Rose Morris imports, but the only differences between a 1999 and one that was not exported (to the U.K. or Australia) would be the serial number and a boat ride.

RIC has explained that the S (when applied retroactively) means "special" as in out of the ordinary; ordinary being the deluxe 4001 model with binding and shark-fin position markers.

To further complicate matters, RIC produced an unbound, dot-neck version of the new 4003 to take over when stocks of the old 4001S were exhausted. The first of these was the 4003SB (presumably "special Beatle"), and evidence suggests that the first versions of this special model was marketed (at least in Japan) as the "4001SB." This first "vintage" model was short-lived as then-new RIC CEO John Hall replaced it with a much more accurate vintage replica, the 4001V63.

Oh, but we're not done yet! Concurrent with the V63 was the 4003S and its progeny, the 4003S/5 five-string, the 4003S/8 eight-string, and the 4003SPC (SPC meaning "special" again) Blackstar, Redneck, and Tuxedo basses.

And one more. In 2002, RIC replaced the V63 with the 4001C64 and 4001C64S (see meaning "sanded" to replicate Paul McCartney's sanded-down original "4000+1" bass. And we have come full circle.

(Oh, and there is also cavity graffiti that muddies the waters. Production batches were often labeled inside with a model number and a sequencing letter. I have a 1972 4001 that is labeled inside with "4001-Q." Not a different model number as some would have you believe.)

[heinpete]

...for me the 4001S always stood for "simple", in comparison to the "deluxe" model !?

[bassduke49]

...for me the 4001S always stood for "simple", in comparison to the "deluxe" model !?

That would make a lot more sense!

[ch willie]

I have flatwounds on it. The pups seem to be too weak, and I've raised and lowered them, checking for the strongest signal.

I've been listening to Wings Over America cranked, and that bass sounds so good, so powerful. I realized mine is in the ballpark. I do realize too that McCartney''s playing through an Ampeg SVT and that he tweaked the bass in the studio.

Thanks for all the information. I appreciate the history lesson.

[ch willie]

So mine is a 4001, no s. Wow, I've always thought it was the S. I was a kid, and I didn't question what the guitar shop told me. They weren't very interested in kids anyway, so we didn't do much talking about it.

But I still love it and won't part with it. More than likely, I'll get a second Ric one day.

[cjj]

But I still love it and won't part with it. More than likely, I'll get a second Ric one day.

If you hang around this place (the forum) for long, there will likely be a third and then a fourth and then a...