ch willie wrote:I don't know if the shoes are functional or just for looks. I didn't try to take it apart, but I know Macca didn't leave the shoe on. I've seen others with them off too.
Hmm, can't find it right now... but I seem to remember something from John Hall on this forum that said that the shoes were a significant part of reproducing the vintage horseshoe sound. Anyone else remember that?
Do you have the .0047 cap installed in-line with the horseshoe? And the push-pull switch to bypass it? I have the RIHS on my 4001, and there are some great tones to be had both ways.
And I have to agree with the people who recommended putting the new pickup in your original surround. Totally reversible mod, and I think it looks great (that's how I did mine). The backwards surround just looks wrong to me.
songdog wrote:
Hmm, can't find it right now... but I seem to remember something from John Hall on this forum that said that the shoes were a significant part of reproducing the vintage horseshoe sound. Anyone else remember that?
I believe that the Magnetic pole touch the horseshoes and gives them a magnet is field. So in a way these should work like the original. Some who have removed them say they don't hear much difference with or without them. I never tied that test so have no opinion,
songdog wrote:Do you have the .0047 cap installed in-line with the horseshoe? And the push-pull switch to bypass it? I have the RIHS on my 4001, and there are some great tones to be had both ways.
The cap engaged when both pickups are selected seems to be the biggest benefit IMO. It seems to eliminate or reduce frequencies that overlap between the two pickups. I prefer the sound of the treble pickup soloed without the cap.
The shoes on RIHS pickups are not magnetic, and therefore not functional, although John Hall claims they have some effect on directing the magnetic field of the Alnico slugs. Paul did not take his shoes off. In the early 70's when his bass was at RIC for repairs, the original horseshoe was dead and would not recharge, so it was replaced with a then current bridge hi-gain. Paul simply removed the plastic pickup cover. All of my RIHS's measure out at about 12K. I also agree with others here in that you should either flip the pickup bezel around and re-drill the holes for it, or put the stock one back on.
ch willie wrote:I don't know if the shoes are functional or just for looks. I didn't try to take it apart, but I know Macca didn't leave the shoe on. I've seen others with them off too.
Hmm, can't find it right now... but I seem to remember something from John Hall on this forum that said that the shoes were a significant part of reproducing the vintage horseshoe sound. Anyone else remember that?
johnhall wrote:The special alloy of tungsten steel (not cobalt) hasn't been available for many years, at least not without some special order custom alloying. Beyond that, it was notorious for losing its magnetic charge over time. Anyone with an original horseshoe that has not had it recharged is not hearing the original tone or level of output.
Based upon these facts, for the reissue, we really had no choice but to use embedded Alnico magnets in conjunction with the horseshoes. The slug magnets provide essentially a permanent and standardized magnetic field while the wrap around horseshoes act as poles to properly redirect it like the originals. They will work without the horseshoes but then they do not have the same tone, as the pickup is reduced to single dimensional sensing rather than 3D as the horsehoe does. (Remember that a vibrating string has a waveform shaped like a helix, not just back and forth.) And yes, they do provide shielding as well.
Much tweaking was done as part of the C Series design to capture the original sound of a fully charged horseshoe. We actually had to invent our own special probe using a Hall effect device (no pun intended!) to understand where the fields exist and their strength.
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
There is some difference with the shoes on or off on the RIHS pickup. Its subtle but the shoes increase the inductance of the pickup and change the ADSR of the pickup somewhat.. ( I feel the attack is reduced and the pickup sounds a bit smoother with more harmonic contrent)
I once made a set of steel shoes for a 5 string Hi-gain pickup and once fitted the sound was that bit closer to the RIHS pickup, I was happy with the results!
Eden.
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....
I appreciate all the advice about turning the surround metal or going back to the original. I may do that when next I change strings. Right now, I dig the bau effect.
All the world's a stage, albeit with mountains, plains, oceans, rivers, buildings, towers, animals, humans, plants, and Armour's Spam.
When I bought the 4001 in 78, it had a heavy, metal cover over the pup. I took it off and lost it. From what I understand, the covers now are chrome plated plastic. Hope I'm wrong?
All the world's a stage, albeit with mountains, plains, oceans, rivers, buildings, towers, animals, humans, plants, and Armour's Spam.
Are you sure yours was metal? AFAIK, they have all been plastic; John Hall did ask a few years ago if anyone here had an early metal one that he could borrow to duplicate, however, nobody came up with one.
weemac wrote:There is some difference with the shoes on or off on the RIHS pickup. Its subtle but the shoes increase the inductance of the pickup and change the ADSR of the pickup somewhat..
Eden.
Would the non magnetic shoes influence the inductance in a significant way? In the inductor world, non magnetic cores are limited to the low inductance and high current applications (like a tube amp PSU in a CLC circuit). Maybe my analogy to inductors is totally flawed though! My Electricity and Magnetism class is very far back in time so I may be totally off track here.
It's not that they are non-magnetic, they are steel. It's that they are non-magnetized. In other words, they are not permanent magnets and are not the source of the magnetic field for the pickup...
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
I vaguely remember seeing a metal cover on a friend's bass many years ago, comparing it to mine, which was chrome plated plastic. Of course, his bass could well have been a faker. Didn't know such things existed back then...
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
cjj wrote:It's not that they are non-magnetic, they are steel. It's that they are non-magnetized. In other words, they are not permanent magnets and are not the source of the magnetic field for the pickup...
