4003 Bridge still too high?

[Baker69]

Although the strings are pretty low on my 4003 (and without any fret buzzing), I thought they could go a bit lower so I decided to lower the saddle heights a fraction, but then realised that the height adjustment screws were loose, i.e. the bridge had bottomed and there was no further travel adjustment travel left in it. The screws were very loose and not actually doing anything so I tightened them slightly so as not lose them, but I was surprised that I couldn't physically get the strings any lower? I did manage to lower the string height a fraction to what it was and still do not have any fret rattle whatsoever, the underside of the strings to the top of the last fret is 2mm. I thought you should be able to drop the strings until they're pretty much touching the frets, is this common or is there something not right here?

[ken_j]

I've experienced this before. Make sure the neck is adjusted correctly. If so you can sand down the bottom of the bridge a bit. You can also file the string grooves deeper (not my first choice).

[cassius987]

Action is best sorted by adjusting the relief of the neck. If it's already straight as an arrow and there is a big fallaway (seen as increased action) as you go from nut to body, it's a bad neck angle. But even on Rics with good neck angle the action usually bottoms out before the strings just start laying on the frets. Aside from some 4001s I haven't seen bad neck angle on too many Rics but I've heard plenty tell of it on the innernetz. Neck-through instruments can only correct bad neck angle two ways, either a total rebuild or countersinking the bridge, which I have learned is a lot more common than I first realized.

[aceonbass]

While the earlier cast aluminum bridges can have as much as 1/16" of material removed from the bottom to lower action, the cast zinc ones have relocated saddle screw locations that prohibit doing this without running into the screw heads, and keeping them from being adjustable. If your action is really 2mm at the last fret, it's lower than mine at maybe 3mm. Any lower, and I'd be getting fret buzz. I can't see the point of being able to drop the strings down onto the frets either. If you really do need lower action, the string grooves can be ground deeper, and the saddles reshaped to move the intonation witness point further rearward. I use a Dremmel for this.

[Baker69]

I do agree, I don't want to drop the action any lower than it is, my concern was that that if I did want to that option is not there to me. The neck is pretty good, flat as I can possibly get it without introducing string rattle on the first three frets, and I increased the depth of the grooves in the nut as well so as far as playability is concerned I would say it's pretty much bang-on.

It is now very similar in set up to how my 4001 was, but this also had this aggressive growl as the strings hit the frets when they were hit hard!

I don't really want to start messing with the bridge, I'm happy with how the bass is set up now, I was just a bit surprised that I'd run out of adjustment that's all and wondered if anyone else has experienced this?

[Ashgray]

I have a similar problem with both my 4001v63 and my 4001 FL Steve - both suffer from a slight tail-lift in the tailpiece and a negative angle on the neck, which oddly is fairly straight on both basses despite the angle. In both cases, the bridge saddles, like yours, are as low as they'll go and the adjusting screws are at the end of their travel.

Ironically, the bass with the best set up and neck profile is the one with the greatest strain on it - my 4008! No tail-lift, the action is as low as I'd ever want it, and the neck is straight as a die and absolutely parallel with the body, wheras the strings on the V63 in particular have a noticeable slope up from the bridge to the nut.

[Colonel Sanders]

2 mm at the last fret is pretty darn good!

[aceonbass]

I don't think the design of these bridges will, even under the best of circumstances, allow for the strings to be dropped far enough to contact the frets. The deeper you slot the saddles to achieve lower action, the further back they have to be to set the intonation. Contrary to what some think, intonation is set by fretting each string at the 12th fret, NOT by pinging the harmonic there.

[johnhall]

Contrary to what some think, intonation is set by fretting each string at the 12th fret, NOT by pinging the harmonic there.

Stated a bit more precisely, when done by ear, it's the difference between the 12th fret harmonic and when it's fretted. However, using a tuner it's probably easier to compare the open string against the note fretted at the 12th fret.

There are even times when it's perfectly acceptable to adjust the intonation away from perfect. I find that playing some types of songs, like U2's Streets with No Name sound better if the intonation is slightly compromised. That's due to the extra stretching or sliding on those high notes combined with rapid plucking. That's in the area of personal preference, of course.

You might do some similar things with a guitar that's set up for slide but also used for some fretting.

[aceonbass]

Yes, if I were setting up a guitar to be played primarily with a slide, I'd set the intonation by the 12th fret harmonic. It's due to string stretch that setting the intonation with a fretted note is more accurate. If one were more of a roots style bass player, you could even set the intonation at a lower fret, say the 7th. Since frets in general, as well as intonation are always something of a compromise, setting intonation on a lower fret would result in slightly more accurate pitch on the frets below that point. Adam Clayton played Where the Streets Have No Name with a pick. I find the sound to be more "even" and like the record than playing it finger style.

[cassius987]

When intonating a bass you either do harmonic versus fretted or open versus fretted, in no situation can the open and harmonic be used together to intonate a bass. And in either case, string stretch will be accounted for. The open note and 12th fret harmonic will always be in tune with each other. I occasionally do this at the 19th fret as well but don't consider it a requirement.

[Baker69]

2 mm at the last fret is pretty darn good!

Yeah, never been able to get the action that low on any other make of bass I've owned. After rehearsals on Tuesday night however I think I'm going to raise it up to 3mm as I was getting a bit of fretbuzz when attacking the strings ony fairly moderately.

[cassius987]

Take it slow. If you were okay at 2, try just raising the bridge a hair. Don't obsess; see how it goes at rehearsal. While 1 mm doesn't sound like much your ideal setup could be at a fine line between 2 and 3 mm, not at either extreme.

EDIT: In fact don't mess with the bridge, just give the neck a tiny bit more relief. Usually when action's an issue relief is the better way to get it sorted.