Lollar lawsuit

[collin]

Most guitar players think of using a RIC as a decidedly lower option than other makes. They have grown used to custom shops at companies like Gibson and Fender and the fact that RIC doesn't have one and apparently doesn't have any interest in one

A.) That's not the consensus of most people I run into. Can't tell you how many gigs I've played and somebody randomly comes up afterwards to talk about my Rickenbacker, and they're always enthusiastic or impressed. These are guitar players, not bassists.

B.) Most other companies need a custom shop because their standard-issue products are lousy or inconsistent. In my opinion, RIC doesn't need to compensate for a lack of quality control by offering a more expensive Custom Shop - the quality is already there.

[doctorwho]

Most guitar players think of using a RIC as a decidedly lower option than other makes. They have grown used to custom shops at companies like Gibson and Fender and the fact that RIC doesn't have one and apparently doesn't have any interest in one

A.) That's not the consensus of most people I run into. Can't tell you how many gigs I've played and somebody randomly comes up afterwards to talk about my Rickenbacker, and they're always enthusiastic or impressed. These are guitar players, not bassists.

B.) Most other companies need a custom shop because their standard-issue products are lousy or inconsistent. In my opinion, RIC doesn't need to compensate for a lack of quality control by offering a more expensive Custom Shop - the quality is already there.

+1

Also, although I can't speak for the company, IMO Rickenbacker would have a custom shop if the capacity were available.

[JakeK]

Most guitar players think of using a RIC as a decidedly lower option than other makes. They have grown used to custom shops at companies like Gibson and Fender and the fact that RIC doesn't have one and apparently doesn't have any interest in one

A.) That's not the consensus of most people I run into. Can't tell you how many gigs I've played and somebody randomly comes up afterwards to talk about my Rickenbacker, and they're always enthusiastic or impressed. These are guitar players, not bassists.

B.) Most other companies need a custom shop because their standard-issue products are lousy or inconsistent. In my opinion, RIC doesn't need to compensate for a lack of quality control by offering a more expensive Custom Shop - the quality is already there.

+1

Also, although I can't speak for the company, IMO Rickenbacker would have a custom shop if the capacity were available.

A big +2

[soundmasterg]

Most guitar players think of using a RIC as a decidedly lower option than other makes. They have grown used to custom shops at companies like Gibson and Fender and the fact that RIC doesn't have one and apparently doesn't have any interest in one

A.) That's not the consensus of most people I run into. Can't tell you how many gigs I've played and somebody randomly comes up afterwards to talk about my Rickenbacker, and they're always enthusiastic or impressed. These are guitar players, not bassists.

B.) Most other companies need a custom shop because their standard-issue products are lousy or inconsistent. In my opinion, RIC doesn't need to compensate for a lack of quality control by offering a more expensive Custom Shop - the quality is already there.

In response....

A.) People come up to me at gigs to talk about my Rics too, usually surprised I am using them for blues, and say they look great but they don't like them because of a number of reasons including the sound, the small frets, and the weird control order. I happen to agree with them as far as the weird control order and the small frets as with blues based stuff, guitarists doing that type of music often bend strings and the short frets make that hard to do. Having a custom shop that could supply an instrument with something like taller frets would allow customers to buy the instrument the way they want it instead of having to pay a luthier (or do the work themselves) to re-fret the instrument with taller frets. Another option would be wider necks on the vintage style instruments. The weird control order is easy to change up, but the sound....well it is what it is. I like the toasters for blues stuff myself, but not in the bridge position...too bright. The hi gains and humbuckers are usually too compressed and distorted for me and a lot of others for blues based stuff. The fact that RIC makes all of their pickups to fit a certain dimension is kind of cool that you can swap between them, but on the other hand it compromises the sound of the pickups too.

B.) Your statements presuppose that the only reason for a custom shop is because your standard line of instruments or products have inferior quality and that a custom shop resolves this. I disagree with this notion....companies like Seymour Duncan have a custom shop to build people's custom desires...or to build a pickup they don't offer in their regular line. Companies like Fender and Gibson try to cover all price points with their products so yes their cheaper stuff will not be the best of quality. RIC generally has good quality in their instruments, but there are some things that are poor just like other makers....finish problems from time to time, defective pickups from time to time, and snapping R tailpieces come to mind, along with poor setup when the instrument arrives at some dealers. Given that many other makers don't bother with setup at all, that probably doesn't matter too much these days as most dealers probably expect they will have to setup instruments once they get to their shops. My RIC 360 BBR has an obvious demarcation physically between the joints on the different wood types on the back of the neck in places.....that is pretty poor quality in my opinion. I could fix it if I planned to completely refinish the instrument. It is something that has been getting worse over time, but it is our warranty so nothing I can do.

I think RIC might consider a custom shop if they had more capacity, but perhaps not too. Just off the top of my head I remember a post years ago where Mr. Hall seemed derisive of the idea. The fact that they do not have one means a lot of people who are used to other instruments like Fenders, or Gibsons, or Gretsches and custom shops where they can order with options they want will gravitate towards them rather than use a RIC because of the quirks associated with Rickenbackers. The things I pointed out above are just with the guitars...their basses have a whole other set of quirks that many players don't like and wish they could order without having to change things up themselves after they buy an expensive instrument.

Greg

[Grey]

People come up to me at gigs to talk about my Rics too, usually surprised I am using them for blues, and say they look great but they don't like them because of a number of reasons including the sound, the small frets, and the weird control order.

You've been around here for a long time and seem like a good guy but i'm having trouble buying this statement. People actaully walk up to you at gigs and start telling you how much they dislike the guitar you're playing?

"Oh hey that's a nice looking guitar you've got, let me go into my alphabetically organized list of all the things I dislike about Rickenbacker guitars. They don't sound good either, specifically while you were playing by the way."

[johnhall]

The fact that they do not have one means a lot of people who are used to other instruments like Fenders, or Gibsons, or Gretsches and custom shops where they can order with options they want will gravitate towards them rather than use a RIC because of the quirks associated with Rickenbackers. The things I pointed out above are just with the guitars...their basses have a whole other set of quirks that many players don't like and wish they could order without having to change things up themselves after they buy an expensive instrument.

Thank goodness, as it's hard enough keeping up with all the business we have already!

[Grey]

Thank goodness, as it's hard enough keeping up with all the business we have already!

I wish that wasen't the case. I know, kind of dumb thing to say since the goal of any business is to be profitable, but as a consumer what can I expect from a company perfectly content with itself?

Rickenbacker no longer has the drive to innovate because what they've been doing is working. For the people who want what you're already doing, great. For people like myself who would prefer to see a more.. modern offering from Rickenbacker, it's not so great. To be honest i'm a little surprised because you yourself are quite well known as a tinkerer. To cite a specific example, the 490 that never reached production. That had some pretty interesting electronics and a more modern slant to it (when it was made) than what Rickenbacker had been doing at the time. You've also said on more than one occasion that you like you draw and come up with new designs.

If Rickenbacker is so profitable, which it clearly is, I would think that would provide you with a safe buffer to take risks on a new product, but it seems to have only bred stagnation.

Of course I don't manage a guitar business.

[soundmasterg]

Thank goodness, as it's hard enough keeping up with all the business we have already!

I wish that wasen't the case. I know, kind of dumb thing to say since the goal of any business is to be profitable, but as a consumer what can I expect from a company perfectly content with itself?

Rickenbacker no longer has the drive to innovate because what they've been doing is working. For the people who want what you're already doing, great. For people like myself who would prefer to see a more.. modern offering from Rickenbacker, it's not so great. To be honest i'm a little surprised because you yourself are quite well known as a tinkerer. To cite a specific example, the 490 that never reached production. That had some pretty interesting electronics and a more modern slant to it (when it was made) than what Rickenbacker had been doing at the time. You've also said on more than one occasion that you like you draw and come up with new designs.

If Rickenbacker is so profitable, which it clearly is, I would think that would provide you with a safe buffer to take risks on a new product, but it seems to have only bred stagnation.

Of course I don't manage a guitar business.

+1 in my opinion.....

People come up to me at gigs to talk about my Rics too, usually surprised I am using them for blues, and say they look great but they don't like them because of a number of reasons including the sound, the small frets, and the weird control order.

You've been around here for a long time and seem like a good guy but i'm having trouble buying this statement. People actaully walk up to you at gigs and start telling you how much they dislike the guitar you're playing?

"Oh hey that's a nice looking guitar you've got, let me go into my alphabetically organized list of all the things I dislike about Rickenbacker guitars. They don't sound good either, specifically while you were playing by the way."

Yes it does happen just about anytime I use one of my RICS for blues live. If I use the toaster equipped guitars the comments are usually things like "that sounds pretty good...better than I expected, but how can you use it for blues bends with those small frets....RICS look great but they don't sound as good as Les Pauls, Fenders, etc. for blues"

If I use the hi gain or humbucker equipped guitars, I get comments like " those RIC pickups are too compressed, thats why no one uses them for blues...they're better for Rock, alternative, etc."

It is almost always fellow players that comment, and people usually say that Rickenbackers look better than most guitars but don't play or work as well as the common Fenders and Gibsons for blues. I happen to use all sorts of guitars personally, and I will use whatever sounds best for whatever I'm trying to do. The compression thing on the hi gains and humbuckers I have noticed also and I don't like that effect for blues....there just isn't enough clarity. The toasters have clarity and the nice touch like most alnico pickups but they extremely bright in the bridge position, even without the series cap. I've experimented when I have had time with higher wound toasters and haven't found something I like yet. The small height frets on the vintage style instruments do bother me....the taller and larger frets on my 230 make it much easier to bend strings than on my 350V63, but the only option open to me to make my 350V63 play better for blues is to replace the frets with larger frets and refinish the fingerboard, which is very expensive and time consuming. Hence I won't bother until the frets wear down. These comments from other players happen in my area here, which is the Portland, Oregon area. The blues scene here largely is a bunch of players hooked on vintage 50's swing and jump blues and rock and roll, so they tend to like instruments that make those sounds. Some of them, including some well known local players have tried my Rics live themselves and they always return to their own instruments and have the same comments....too bright in the bridge and small frets on the toaster guitars, weird control order, too compressed on the guitars with the higher output pickups. Players in your area are likely to be different or give different comments...the Portland blues scene is pretty unique. I know that if I played out more often with the alternative music crowd the comments would usually be 180 degrees different.

Greg

[iiipopes]

Every genre of music has developed its own prejudices over which electric instruments are "proper" over the years. For example, some of the more pervasive prejudices are:

1) Hollow body for jazz;
2) Telecaster for Country;
3) Strat, Les Paul or SG for Rock;
4) Anything but a Rickenbacker for blues.

This is compounded by the prejudices of RIC instruments being cast as one-trick ponies, because most people have only heard them in the context of Byrds, Beatles, etc.

Most of these stereotypes come from the fact that at the origins of these genres, these were instruments that were used frequently. So people tend to turn "frequently" into "only," unfortunately.

I have used my Rickenbacker instruments in just about all genres of music, from Thursday night to Sunday morning. They have always been well received. I'm betting if Mr. F. C. Hall had gotten a 330 into the hands of Bill Carson before Leo Fender got a Strat into his hands, the 330 would be the standard "country" guitar, instead, because they sound more similar in their original configurations through the small amps of the day using heavier strings than most people would acknowledge.

What does this have to do with the Lollar lawsuit? Nothing. But it seems to be the way the thread has migrated since just about all that can be said until there is either a settlement or trial.

In years gone by, I have used my 320 with flat wounds, and the 4001 bass I used to own, in college jazz band to great effect, just like Toots did. It's up to the player to make the instrument fit, not the other way around. I've jammed my 4002 with more country gigs than I want to admit. And so on with each of my other instruments.

[jdogric12]

People come up to me at gigs to talk about my Rics too, usually surprised I am using them for blues, and say they look great but they don't like them because of a number of reasons including the sound, the small frets, and the weird control order.

You've been around here for a long time and seem like a good guy but i'm having trouble buying this statement. People actaully walk up to you at gigs and start telling you how much they dislike the guitar you're playing?

"Oh hey that's a nice looking guitar you've got, let me go into my alphabetically organized list of all the things I dislike about Rickenbacker guitars. They don't sound good either, specifically while you were playing by the way."

It's not hard for me to believe at all. It's happened to me too, a lot!

In general, over the last 10-15 years, I have directly heard more negative things regarding Rickenbacker than straight-up praise.

[Ashgray]

Just to add my two penny-worth - I've spent the majority of the last 15 years playing live gigs using two custom built 6 string basses (the fretless and the fretfull, as I dubbed them), made by a local luthier of some renown in my own neck of the woods. Only once did I get any comment about what are, effectively, very rare and unusual basses, and that was in Inverness, Scotland!

I still own and use those basses on occasions but now mainly use my three Ricks - the increased interest from ordinary punters when I use my Ricks at gigs has been very noticeable - they seem to attract much more interest and I inevitably find myself fielding many questions from genuine Rickenbacker aficionados, many of whom want to know where I got them, their history, etc, and it's clear that they have an affinity with Ricks that goes way beyond simple nostalgia or evan any appreciation of what I'm playing - many are far more interested in the instruments themselves and their history than what I play on them! -

[DrRick]

Most guitar players think of using a RIC as a decidedly lower option than other makes. They have grown used to custom shops at companies like Gibson and Fender and the fact that RIC doesn't have one and apparently doesn't have any interest in one

I for one am most grateful there is no custom shop option.... I would have to start selling members of my family to pay for some!

[johnallg]

Too late to tell SRV you can"t play blues on a Rick....

[cassius987]

In general, over the last 10-15 years, I have directly heard more negative things regarding Rickenbacker than straight-up praise.

At gigs? I only ever get praise for them at a show.

[sloop_john_b]

In general, over the last 10-15 years, I have directly heard more negative things regarding Rickenbacker than straight-up praise.

At gigs? I only ever get praise for them at a show.

They're talking about the guitars -- big difference there.