(We now join this RM 1999 restoration already in progress)

[walker]

Although, I didn't notice the weight in just the neck by itself. But when I first got the bass back from Chip and played it briefly before taking it apart, it did feel a little neck-heavy. I'm guessing that with the truss rods gone the balance may even back out a little.

[Kopfjaeger]

Ah carbon fiber! Great stuff! Back in my ice hockey playing days, i had a few sticks made with carbon fiber. Remarkable rigidity and feather light. The cool part was It took me way longer to break sticks while cross checking opposing players! I digress.......

Sepp

[Colonel Sanders]

bent the neck back to what I figured to be the perfect point of overcompensation. Once I put the strings on, the neck was still back-bowed a bit, but over the course of 1-2 days under standard string tension, it came forward to just the perfect angle for me - almost perfectly straight with just a slight fwd bow.

I am not sure if I understand correctly. But if you intend to play the bas without truss rod, you may want to consider the following points.

The "natural back bow" under no string tension may be a bit of an issue when you will level the frets after refretting as you will need the neck set flat to level the frets correctly.

The lack of truss rods will most likely change the resonant frequency of the neck (intuitively, I would expect the resonant frequency to drop). That should influence the sound.

Obviously not having truss rods will restrict the strings you will be able to use.

From my backseat driver point of view, if you still have the hairpins rods, would it be better to take the hit, remove the fretboard, channel the fretboard instead of deepening the neck channels, reglue the fretboard and install the hairpin rods?

[walker]

Good points in theory, Jeff. (Except for the "resonant frequency drop" without truss rods. I don't think that's relevant. At least I've never heard of the sound of a guitar being different because it didn't have truss rods.) The angle of the neck may vary with different string gauges and types, but I have yet to test that. As it is now, the angle of the neck is perfect with the strings I use - the DR Med-Lites. (100-80-65-45). I am curious about the potential variance, though, so I'll very likely test that later on by putting on a set of flats and see what happens.

As far as the refret goes, I would think that anyone serious about doing thorough and accurate work has the accessibility to the proper tools for the job. I have a special rack for straightening guitar necks, so I would hope that a competent luthier has the same or better means. I'm also anticipating that it might be necessary to give the top of the fretboard a light planing to assure that it's truly flat.

And like I said before, given how little wood there is to hold the string tension, the last solution I would consider is taking any more wood out of the neck or fretboard. The bending method was the least destructive solution, and so far has proven to be very effective. So as long as there isn't a problem with the neck as it is now, I'm not going to worry about seeking out other solutions. But if a problem DOES arise, I shall attack it mercilessly and hastily, shouting expletives and throw rocks at it so it will go away. If that doesn't work, I will kick it in the stomach, pour gasoline on it & set it on fire, burn it and it's house down with it's whole family inside as they scream haplessly for mercy that will never come. Or maybe I'll assess an appropriate solution which logically and constructively addresses the specific issue that may arise. Not sure - but at this time I'm liking the former option.

[walker]

(follow up) I still have the bridge height to play with too, if there is a variance in how the neck reacts to different influences. But for now, I know that I'm always going to be using the same string gauge, so the only thing I'm anticipating is what the weather and/or temperature changes may do. I was pleased that the neck responded well to the bending method with the carbon rods glued into the wood. In this context, they must act like a fixed truss rod - pre-set to apply a constant plane of resistance, so in this case, I would adjust the neck angle to the rod tension instead of vice-versa. I'm watching it like a hawk, though... like, I play it every 10 minutes and give the neck a good eye-balling down the length looking for any variation in the angle. It's been holding true for the past 24 hours, so, so far so good.

Joe - you'd probably like the feel of this RM neck. Very rigid - you could probably put it to good use in the ring or apply it in other scenarios that you may find yourself in if a hockey game breaks out on the ice.

[henry5]

Well just to briefly hijack the thread again, I did as Mark suggested and put some washers under the saddle unit of my Azure and took the height adjustment screws out. I can't believe the difference. If only I'd done it months ago and before filing the slots in the new saddles, which was done whilst the bridge was at a steep angle, meaning the slots are now at a weird angle and the saddles ideally need replacing and refiling. Still, they'll do for now.

Cheers Mark!

[aceonbass]

The early cast aluminum saddles are
No longer available, and the currently available ones dont fit without a lot of work.

[walker]

Hey Shaun - glad the washer method got you closer to getting the bridge the way you want it. Bearing what Dane says in mind, though, you'd be hard pressed to find another set of those old aluminum saddles and the newer ones aren't a very good fit. ~BUT~ you can fill the old slots of the aluminum saddles in with a steel epoxy, then refile them again from the rebuilt height. The grayish hue of the epoxy is pretty close to the appearance of the saddles, too, so it won't be a colosal eye-sore when you're done. Plus, the strings will cover up most of that work anyway.

[henry5]

Thanks, I know that Dane. However I know an engineer who made me a new set of aluminium saddles that are a far better fit than the originals (which of course I still have) for a very reasonable price - hardly more than a new set of current saddles in the UK - and will happily make me some more (when he's got some spare time!). It actually works pretty fine as is to be honest, but you know how it goes.

EDIT - Sorry Mark, must have posted just after you! Trust me, it's a non-issue, but thanks for the concern. In fact it may even be feasible to tweak the current slots as they're not far off at all, but I'll wait til my tech sees it; it needs a couple of very minor tweaks anyway.

[johnhall]

The early cast aluminum saddles are
No longer available, and the currently available ones dont fit without a lot of work.

Are you aware that the saddles and the saddle assembly were completely redesigned about a year ago? The fit is actually quite good.

The dies have also just been moved to a new die caster that has greater capability and precision, which will improve them further.

[aceonbass]

Yes John, I do know this and the fit is excellent, but the new ones have a lower screw hole that results in saddles that sit quite high if used on one of the old cast aluminum bridges.

[walker]

That's good news, John!

[henry5]

That's good news, John!

Indeed!

I do wish there was a direct Ric replacement for the old aluminium saddles (assuming they weren't individually fitted) that could be bought off the shelf, but I cant imagine it would be remotely cost effective.

[aceonbass]

I do wish there was a direct Ric replacement for the old aluminium saddles (assuming they weren't individually fitted) that could be bought off the shelf, but I cant imagine it would be remotely cost effective.

I don't know why not. It would be one part number that would fit a 4000 series basses from '63-early 73. They could charge ten bucks apiece, and I think people would be glad to pay it.

[pag]

I think the original aluminium parts influenced the tone differently
to the modern castings.
You often hear guitarists picking and chosing bridge parts for Fenders based on tone
and I think the original 4000 series bridge/tail is the missing link in the tone chain
when comparing old and new versions of what is virtually the same guitar.