1965 4001 needs a bit of TLC

[Kopfjaeger]

The eagle has landed!! Fresh from it's cross country journey in an ill fitting case with a sparse amount of packing materials to keep her from slamming around the inside of the case, I'm happy to announce the arrival of my newest "project".

I swiftly intercepted her from the postman this morning. Actually, it was the postwoman and she was very happy I came to the post office in uniform to get it so she would have to lug it around all day! My wife was home so the bass spent most of the day doing a "ride along" with me in the back of my squad car. She spent a fair amount of time in HQ when had to make room for a "guest" in the back of my vehicle!!

At first glance I was amazed at the thinness of her neck Very comparable to Mark Walkers RM 1999, which I had the pleasure to examine several weeks ago. I was very pleased to find the neck is as straight as an arrow with no structural cracks anywhere. The action is very low and the bridge seems to be raised a bit. I bet I can get the bridge lower if I wanted to. There is plenty of loose and worn binding. The finish on the fretboard is chipped in chunks in places and not too bad in others. Most of the neck wear seems to be centered around the 5th and 7th fret. The frets are a bit worn but not too bad. The route in the neck pup area has been deepened by about 1/16 of an inch. Maybe 3/32's at the most. The neck pup was not even hooked up and the G string touches the pole when fretting above the 10th fret. I pulled that boat anchor out!!

OK, what am I going to do with her?? Not sure actually. I've picked up a brand new set of C64 tuners for her from a forumite, thanks Col. Sanders!! I've purchased a 1965 staggered pole toaster out of a 12 string. I'd like to put that in but I'm not sure if it needs to be unwound a bit. Can anyone tell me what the optimal Ohm reading is on a vintage mid 60's bass toaster should be?? I need to put a horse shoe pup back in here! That is my biggest obstacle. I won't bother with a re-issue horsie! It's either a modified vintage horsie or a lollar. That seems to be the only game in town. Oh and the pickguard is trashed thanks to the monster neck pup cut out. I'll be asking Tony and pickguardian to make me one. I'll have the electronics cleaned up and brought back to spec as well.

Now to re-finish or leave as is. Interesting question and one I don't have an answer for just yet.

Here are the better fotos of her.

Sepp

[Kopfjaeger]

More fotos.

[Colonel Sanders]

Cool bass!

Happy to see that those C64 tuners will be put to good use!

[cjj]

Very nice!

[sloop_john_b]

Any particular reason you're looking to refin it Sepp?

[ken_j]

I'd be inclined to put the right parts on and leave the finish. You can always refinish it at a later date but once done you can never go back.

By the way, did your "guest" get a free room for the night.

[Kopfjaeger]

John,

I'm completely up in he air on the re-finish issue. On the one hand, I hear everyone on the "mojo" issue but the fingerboard has the varnish worn off in spots and it's flaking off in other areas. At minimum the frets need to be dressed at some point so I'm thinking a reconditioning of the board is a good idea. while the top side finish is not too bad the rear is about 40% down to the wood. The neck is worn down to the wood in a decent size span as well. The wood is pretty grimy in the areas where the finish is gone. I applied a coat of Zymol to the finish and was amazed by the layers of crud that came off. Gross actually! The finish is quite battered and while I do not want to "grind " off a layer of wood to have a clean slate, I'm really not sure how a new finish applied to a worn slab will look. Will it look like spray painting over a scratch or a chip in a vehicle finish???

I realize the bass is and iconic piece of history due to it's age and scarcity. It's has not been owned by a famous player so keeping it worn has not wow factor. In a lot of ways it's just someone else dirt, sweat, and wear marks. I'd kinda like to create my own.

I really don't think the pup cavities will need any work. The treble cavity has a slight bit of material removed on the rearward wall to make room for the pup they crammed in there. The neck route is only slightly deeper that the original one. The only issue is the lip area at the bass of the neck. That has been removed so the pick guard has no purchase point directly under the neck. I don't think that an issue.

I'm going to sent out the electronics to have all that **** wire removed and the proper caps put back in as well as a general sprucing up. The selector switch is quite floppy so that will need some attention as well. I'd say that 80% of the pick guard screws are the worn size, (too large). These will need to be filled and re drilled to properly re-attach the replacement guard. Also, both strap button holes are stripped

I pulled the string keeper off the head stock. It was added to keep the G string from leaving the nut slot, which it seems to want to do with a little effort. I think the string is too short and does not have the proper wraps to keep downward pressure to maintain a good break angle. Once I have the right tuners on it, and new strings, it should get better. I have no idea what stings these are except they are round wound. The prior owned said this bass has say for the last 10 or 15 year in the case so I doubt they are low tension. Regardless, the neck is straight as an arrow.

I know I've gotten away from the finish question but at this point I don't know what I want to do. Here is the direction I'm thinking of heading. Gather the proper parts and square up the electronics including the pups. Get some solid opinions on the neck finish and frets. I'll also solicit opinions of the feasibility of completely refinishing it. it's not a option I'm completely sold on yet.

Whatever I choose, I promise I won't make this instrument worse.

Ken, Yes, the guest is now "enjoying the accommodations" of the county jail!

Sepp

[Grey]

I would never touch that finish. That's a real "relic" and while I know this is simplification of the issue, why buy an old guitar just to make it look like a new one? Why erase the history, even if it's someone elses history?

New Ricks will continue to be made, 1965 4001's will not. All it needs is to be refitted with period correct hardware and this will be an amazing instrument.

[Kopfjaeger]

Two schools of thought for sure and quite polarizing. My biggest concern is not having the condition degrade due to unprotected grain since wood is quite porous. I think we can all agree that attempting to prevent further degradation is the utmost importance. If I do opt for a complete re-finish the result has to be flawless. There will be no half-*** measure. The fingerboard has several dark streaks where the strings have worn off the finish and sweat has soaked the wood and discolored it. The binding is brittle and very thin in areas as well as cracked. All degradation concerns for me since I will be playing this bass. I may have a nice "collection" but I really do not have the means and or desire to collect just for the sake of collecting. This bass needs to be a reliable player.

The bass does not play. I attempted to plug it in to see how it sounded and was greeted by a hum that did not go away whether I touched the strings or not. I'll check the grounds but I'm confidant the first order of business has to be electronics.

On another note, it appears I've secured a raised lip 6 pole bobbin to be transformed into a 4 pole. All I need now is a pair of 1 1/4 magnetic shoes for her and I'm set in the pup department.

Sepp

[Grey]

I assure you that the exposed wood will affect neither the playability nor reliability of the instrument.

[collin]

I would never touch that finish. That's a real "relic" and while I know this is simplification of the issue, why buy an old guitar just to make it look like a new one? Why erase the history, even if it's someone elses history?

New Ricks will continue to be made, 1965 4001's will not. All it needs is to be refitted with period correct hardware and this will be an amazing instrument.

+1 - all of it.

It's only original once. That finish is what really tells you this bass is nearly 50 years old, plus it's the quintessential 1965 shade of Fireglo. If you refinish it, you might get it glossy and shiny and new-looking, but it would lose a lot more character than it would gain (not to mention that you'd devalue this instrument big time by refinishing it).

Not saying you fall into this category, Sepp but I do see it often that people covet an old, vintage guitar but want to hide its history and make it look new again. What would be the point of that?

It would make sense to do anything necessary to get it back to stock shape (replace any parts needed, get it structurally sound, even refinish the fretboard if it's damaged)..... but it would be a huge loss if this bass were refinished. Anyways, that's my $0.02 on it.

It is also possible to clean up the grime and sweat etc on the exposed areas of wood and spray sealer on the exposed wood so that it cannot absorb any further dirt. Let us know if you want details on this process!


Aside from ALL that - congrats Sepp! Glad it turned out even better than expected.

[RogerM]

It looks to be a great older bass that has seen its share of real wear and tear . . . seriously hope you don't ruin it with a refin; just do the minimum necessary to get it into playing condition. And don't worry about the exposed wood

[Kopfjaeger]

Guys, tahnks for the great comments on my new acquisition! The vast majority of comments have been to leave it as it is with no re-finish. many of the comments have been from guys I respect.

I'll leave it as is as work toward getting her squared away electronically. I spoke with Tony and will be sending him the pickguard for him to copy, minus the huge cut out!

The keywinds will be here in a week or so. Hopefully the the holes were not enlarged!! The toaster will be here in a few days. I found the correct bobbin and will be getting it converted. I'll be sending out the electronics to be restored to spec.

Here is what I need;

a pair of Rickenbacker magnetic horse shoes, preferably 60's vintage.

What is the proper resistance range for the toaster neck pup?? I need to know if I need to have the one arriving un-wound a bit.

That's pretty much it for now.
Thanks in advance for your advice and assistance!

Sepp

[bassduke49]

Sepp, maybe I wasn't following close enough, but why wouldn't you consider taking the "vintage" Horsey from "Snow White" and put it in there? Do you still have "Snow White" or did I miss that you were successful in selling it?

[Kopfjaeger]

Paul,

Unfortunately, Snow White is sold. She went to guy in the midwest who planned to drop tune her and gig her in his rock band. I have a feeling she's not going to be happy with what he has planned for her. I was considering keeping her, at least her electronics, to use in a worth project. This would have been perfect for that!!! Now I'm scouring the internet for a set of shoes. Damn!!

Sepp