1965 4001 needs a bit of TLC

[opticnerve]

Thanks Ash, but I didn't build it. The real thanks should go to Forum member Mark Walker. The pickup is his work.

From the sound of the feedback that these pickups are getting from yourself & others, he's getting darn good at what he does!

Bravo Mark!

[aceonbass]

Given that the RIHS pickups are wound to 12K+, I don't think we're seeing the pickups full potential in realizing "the sound". Another factor in "the sound" which no one seems to be discussing nearly as much as the pickups, is the original electronics. RIC hasn't used the 500K&250K pot values in their basses in decades. All the pots I got post 2000 were in the 175K range, while the current ones are 330K. Then there's the tone caps. Even though they're still .047uF, I can tell the difference between the 60's caps and the current caps. I like the current C&D caps. They're a good solid, and economical cap, but to my ears, the older paper in oil caps sound better/different.

[Kopfjaeger]

OK, I received my new set of C64 tuners from a forumite, thanks Jeff! Very speedy shipping from Australia! The holes match up perfectly and they look great but here is my issue, the peg holes were slightly reamed for the M4's. The ferrules slip into the holes and will rotate. The fit is not sloppy but it's looser than it should be.

Hole size .468. Ferrule size .464.

I placed the tuner in and put two screws in each. The holes are slightly oblong. I think, instead of cutting plugs to fill the hole and re-cutting the proper size hole for such a small mismatch, I'm thinking of cutting a small length of maple veneer edging and gluing it into the hole. I can then hand sand the hole with a dowel and fine sandpaper back to size to make the ferrules tighter in the peg holes. Thoughts??

Sepp

[cjj]

Given that the RIHS pickups are wound to 12K+, I don't think we're seeing the pickups full potential in realizing "the sound". Another factor in "the sound" which no one seems to be discussing nearly as much as the pickups, is the original electronics. RIC hasn't used the 500K&250K pot values in their basses in decades. All the pots I got post 2000 were in the 175K range, while the current ones are 330K. Then there's the tone caps. Even though they're still .047uF, I can tell the difference between the 60's caps and the current caps. I like the current C&D caps. They're a good solid, and economical cap, but to my ears, the older paper in oil caps sound better/different.

Other than on various recordings, I've never actually heard an original horseshoe. Well, that's not quite true, I've got a couple of console steels, but that's not quite the same.

I wonder if the sound difference of the old paper and oil caps is due to their values drifting (which they are very prone to do), or something else. It would be interesting to make some measurements on 'em...

[cjj]

OK, I received my new set of C64 tuners from a forumite, thanks Jeff! Very speedy shipping from Australia! The holes match up perfectly and they look great but here is my issue, the peg holes were slightly reamed for the M4's. The ferrules slip into the holes and will rotate. The fit is not sloppy but it's looser than it should be.

Hole size .468. Ferrule size .464.

I placed the tuner in and put two screws in each. The holes are slightly oblong. I think, instead of cutting plugs to fill the hole and re-cutting the proper size hole for such a small mismatch, I'm thinking of cutting a small length of maple veneer edging and gluing it into the hole. I can then hand sand the hole with a dowel and fine sandpaper back to size to make the ferrules tighter in the peg holes. Thoughts??

Sepp

The tuners do look good!


I think your idea sounds like it should work, probably worth a try...

[aceonbass]

Got Sepp's harness disassembled, and cleaned up the pots. They all have identical date codes of 6526, so they're obviously original to this bass. The tones measured 600K & 557K while the volumes measured 177K & 271K. However, when turned, the values jumped all over the place in the wrong direction, and were inconsistent. Therefore while I can keep the date coded cases, the internals will have to go. I will select modern CTS pots that I stock which measure as close to the original 500K & 250K as I can. What's nice about the modern pots, is that the four tabs on the case that retain them are in the same place as the original pots. My donor pots will also all be all solid shaft, so there will be none of the wonky pot business going on anymore.

[Wiker]

... but to my ears, the older paper in oil caps sound better/different.

... I wonder if the sound difference of the old paper and oil caps is due to their values drifting (which they are very prone to do), or something else. It would be interesting to make some measurements on 'em...

The old "blue molded" caps? I thought they were mylar/polyester film & foil. ?

[Kopfjaeger]

Update, the maple veneer edging did not work. it was too thick so I had a brainstorm. I broke out my "old school" block plane and shaved off a few passes of 3/4 maple scrap I had laying around the garage. After mic'ing a few sections, I used the sections that were closest to the thickness I needed to fill. I cut them to length and after applying wood glue to the peg hole and the shaving, I curled them and inserted them into the peg holes. I used sections of 3/8 inch wooden dowel rod that I wrapped with friction tape to get me closer to the inner diameter of the peg hole. I then wrapped wax paper around the tape so nothing would stick. The friction tape gave a nice form fitting pressure to the peghole. After drying over night I sanded the peg hole with 220 grit paper rolled around the dowel. I added a slight beveled edge to the opening with an X-acto knife to aid in installing the ferrule. After test fitting, I put a bit of clear varnish on the bare wood inside the peg hole. After adding two coats and lightly sanding in between, The ferrules fit snugly and pushed into place with firm pressure.

Sepp

[cjj]

Making your own "veneers" with a plane... Good idea! Sounds like it worked!

[Kopfjaeger]

Making your own "veneers" with a plane... Good idea! Sounds like it worked!

Worked better than I had expected! The ferrules pushed right in with a little pressure. That really made my day!!

Sepp

[aceonbass]

Just finished Sepp's harness. He opted for the bass cut cap, so I supplied a C&D .0047 cap. Most of the selector switch is original, but the leaves, one of the plastic insulator tubes, and the nut were replaced. I also used a pair of NOS Ajax Blue caps. They spec'd out at .045uF & .051uF. I really don't know their construction (I'm not cutting one open!), but I do think they sound better than the C&D caps RIC currently uses.

[Colonel Sanders]

Making your own "veneers" with a plane... Good idea! Sounds like it worked!

Worked better than I had expected! The ferrules pushed right in with a little pressure. That really made my day!!

Sepp

I am glad to see the tuners made it quickly to your place!

I prefer to see these used over sitting in a box!

Clever solution you got for the pegholes!

[godber]

Just finished Sepp's harness. He opted for the bass cut cap, so I supplied a C&D .0047 cap. Most of the selector switch is original, but the leaves, one of the plastic insulator tubes, and the nut were replaced. I also used a pair of NOS Ajax Blue caps. They spec'd out at .045uF & .051uF. I really don't know their construction (I'm not cutting one open!), but I do think they sound better than the C&D caps RIC currently uses.

Nice detailed work Dane

[teeder]

Awesome job, Dane!
Good idea on the shavings, Sepp!

This is fun to watch. Glad you're keeping the original finish.

[Colonel Sanders]

I really don't know their construction (I'm not cutting one open!), but I do think they sound better than the C&D caps RIC currently uses.

I am pretty sure these are the same type as the Sprague Black Beauty caps, which are mylar film and foil.