The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

[congerz83]

Oh no! Maybe that's what did it!

[JPMac]

Wow....now you have me measuring everything and checking twice....

[cassius987]

Now that I can actually see pictures... Mark has taken a great photo illustrating how a neck's angle relative to the body is as important in affecting string action as relief is. Like Mark said the neck is fairly straight (I see the blue line and relative to that I detect a bit of relief still; Mark, did you use the string as straightedge to check also?), but the downward pitch of the neck relative to the body totally screws up the action in the upper register. I'm guessing between 5-10 degrees. This should probably be a stickied image as a diagnostic reference, preferably bigger/more pixels. The sad thing is that for a neck-through bass is this kind of problem is very hard to fix without one of a handful of irreversible procedures. Bolt-ons, of course, just get shimmed or tilted as needed.

My '76 4001FL had a much less severe form of the same problem, and so I had the tailpiece countersunk. This worked beautifully and produced some nice bonus results as well. But I'm not sure how well it would work for a bass with a problem this severe. Still, it could at least ameliorate the problem and on a nat finish is going to be a little easier to pull off, but it is still delicate work. When people see my bass they usually don't notice the countersink unless I tell them it's there, so it's definitely a viable option that maintains "the look" if you don't have to countersink a lot (in my case, 1 or 2 mm).

[Kopfjaeger]

Whoa, what a thread! I feel bad for the owner for having an instrument he can't play and for Mark who certainly seems he is being vilified for his comments.

I think it's reasonable to assume we are all fans of Rickenbacker instruments. That being said, brand loyalty does not always extend to the company. I'm fairly confident that we have all, at one time or another, defended the company and their products either verbally or on other forums to those who don't share our opinions of the instruments.

I think we all understand the fact that very few things are waranteed forever but there are certain things that should never need to rely on warrantee protection alone. I too was told that string tension was to blame for the flaking paint around the tailpiece of my 2011 Jetglo 4003, even though a rather larger percentage of Jetglo basses near the assembly date suffered the same defect. Sorry, out of warranty anyway, Mr. Starost. Really???? I never got to discuss the issue with Ben Hall. I was dismissed by a customer service rep.

Issues like this one as well as the flaking paint issue have made me question future purchases. This statement comes from someone who considers himself a very big fan of the brand. Hearing that RIC management un-friended and blocked another huge brand supporter for his opinion has me questioning the maturity and wisdom of the company leadership.

Truly unfortunate on so many levels!

I'm no luthier but I'd seriously consider doing what some others have suggested. Route out that mess and glue in a solid hunk of maple and start clean and rock solid!

Best of luck to everyone involved!

Sepp

[congerz83]

Whoa, what a thread! I feel bad for the owner for having an instrument he can't play and for Mark who certainly seems he is being vilified for his comments.

I think it's reasonable to assume we are all fans of Rickenbacker instruments. That being said, brand loyalty does not always extend to the company. I'm fairly confident that we have all, at one time or another, defended the company and their products either verbally or on other forums to those who don't share our opinions of the instruments.

I think we all understand the fact that very few things are waranteed forever but there are certain things that should never need to rely on warrantee protection alone. I too was told that string tension was to blame for the flaking paint around the tailpiece of my 2011 Jetglo 4003, even though a rather larger percentage of Jetglo basses near the assembly date suffered the same defect. Sorry, out of warranty anyway, Mr. Starost. Really???? I never got to discuss the issue with Ben Hall. I was dismissed by a customer service rep.

Issues like this one as well as the flaking paint issue have made me question future purchases. This statement comes from someone who considers himself a very big fan of the brand. Hearing that RIC management un-friended and blocked another huge brand supporter for his opinion has me questioning the maturity and wisdom of the company leadership.

Truly unfortunate on so many levels!

I'm no luthier but I'd seriously consider doing what some others have suggested. Route out that mess and glue in a solid hunk of maple and start clean and rock solid!

Best of luck to everyone involved!

Sepp

I'm just very disappointed with the quality of something I paid so much for at a time when I couldn't even afford it. I lived on ramen noodles for a month to pay the balance on that bass and the fear that it may never be right is haunting me.

Further upset at the treatment I got from the company. To question my ability to read was over the line. Notice I said "upset" and not "surprised". For a person who's invested $6000+ into a company, I just expect better treatment.

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here. I love my RIC basses, but I can't see myself buying another one again. And if I would, it would NOT be a new one. The whole situation just stinks for me. I start a thread to introduce a project that has the potential to be truly legendary, but this whole thing has kind of deflated my balloon.

[scotty]

Thats sad. Nothing much more to say than i hope you end up with some sort of result.

[Lefty4003S8]

SO sorry to read about your troubles with your bass..Rick.

I am also EXTREMELY surprised at the way you were treated by Ben. I personally have never had any dealings with him.
The one time I had to call Rickenbacker, I spoke with Kenny Howes and he was GREAT!!!!!!
As if the mechanical problems with the bass wasn't bad enough, the treatment you received was WRONG!!!!

I hope that you are able to correct the issue(s), and get it in playable condition. After paying SO much, you deserve to have a working instrument.
Best Wishes.









Do not drink from the toilet when taking Lyrica

[cassius987]

Ben and John Hall have both looked out for me before when I was having an issue with a customer service employee who did not understand one of my concerns and thinking I was trying to pull a fast one on RIC. I was pretty upset, but I contacted each of them and they took care of the problem for me. Maybe there has been some misunderstanding in the current communications about this bass that led to the harsh words that were conveyed but no matter what I would caution people to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Halls' participation on RRF has directly benefited many of us. That said I also truly hope there can be a positive resolution to Rick's unfortunate situation, and it would be great to see RIC be of some help (though I'm not sure what) even though the warranty has long since passed. Rick, if it's any consolation, sometimes a messed up instrument is a great canvas for something really cool and unique that could quickly become your favorite bass. Just look at my 4001FL. Hang in there buddy.

[Kopfjaeger]

Joshua,

I hope there is a happy ending here for all as well. Perhaps third party mediation will be required since it certainly seems communication has broken down and resorted to demeaning quips and un-friending on social media.

I do like when Mr. Hall (John) posts. It makes me feel he is connected to the product and actually cares.

However, it seems this situation has taken a familiar path. Those of us that have defective instruments blamed on everything but the factory and have been left to fend for ourselves believes this will have the same unfortunate outcome.

I'm crossing my fingers and hope that I'm wrong.

Sepp

[johnhall]

Hearing that RIC management un-friended and blocked another huge brand supporter for his opinion has me questioning the maturity and wisdom of the company leadership.

I'm not going to discuss here a 2005 instrument that's been out of warranty for 3 years and also no different than any model like it made at the same time..

But I will mention that there's one and only one company Facebook account- and no friend has ever been unfriended from it. Some employees might have their own personal accounts and being personal, they're free to express any opinion they wish and choose with whom they wish to associate.

[aceonbass]

As I've stated before in other threads, the neck pickup route is TOO big, and should not go right up to the fretboard. When I did my 8-string 4003 conversions, I knew in advance that this route would be an issue, so I cut maple blocks to fit the cavity tightly lengthwise, then routed the area JUST big enough for the pickup. none of these conversions have had an issue with negative neck angle flexing for this reason. Considering the additional tension the necks are under with four more strings, this would solve RIC's problem nicely. In less severe cases, I've been able to modify the bridge saddles or bridge pocket so that the action could be lowered significantly without ever having to resort to routing the top of the bass to sink the tailpiece lower. Since Mark has your bass, I would suggest the solution I have enclosed a picture of.

[cassius987]

I hope there is a happy ending here for all as well. Perhaps third party mediation will be required since it certainly seems communication has broken down and resorted to demeaning quips and un-friending on social media.

It seems RIC is not really responsible for the state of Rick's bass at this point (at least not under the terms of warranty) and dragging all this out in the open isn't going to help Rick secure any assistance from them anyway, at least not if it devolves to flaming. That's my thinking at least. As for what happens on social media... I'm not sure what kind of bearing that really has on any of this at all. If cooler heads prevail maybe something good will come of it! That's what I hope.

As I've stated before in other threads, the neck pickup route is TOO big, and should not go right up to the fretboard. When I did my 8-string 4003 conversions, I knew in advance that this route would be an issue, so I cut maple blocks to fit the cavity tightly lengthwise, then routed the area JUST big enough for the pickup. none of these conversions have had an issue with negative neck angle flexing for this reason. Considering the additional tension the necks are under with four more strings, this would solve RIC's problem nicely. In less severe cases, I've been able to modify the bridge saddles or bridge pocket so that the action could be lowered significantly without ever having to resort to routing the top of the bass to sink the tailpiece lower. Since Mark has your bass, I would suggest the solution I have enclosed a picture of.

Dane, the inserted block looks really great in that pic, quite a tight fit indeed. To be honest I'm mystified how adding a new block of wood can patch existing problems with neck angle unless it exerts a sort of force that pushes the angle back, but in my head I have trouble picturing how that would work. However I don't doubt more wood in that position can at least prevent a forward angle from starting up. But have you actually seen this modification reverse a forward angle? If so that would be great. And do you think the block of foreign wood could do any harm like stress the wing/neck/wing joints by expanding and contracting in a different pattern than the finished wood?

[aceonbass]

While I've never used a maple block insert to correct a negative neck angle issue, I tend to think that clamping the body and neck in a vise with the neck pushed back while inserting the block would do the trick. In fact, I'll bet that the neck probably snaps back into position when the strings have been off for awhile. The block is a slightly loose fit side to side, so that no force is exerted on the body wings.

[Kopfjaeger]

Josh,

Here is how I see it. If the only line of communication between Mark and Ben has been severed, how can an exchange of ideas proceed?? It would seem that that's not going to happen now. I find that unfortunate. I really do. Nope, it's no business of RIC's what goes on on someone's private FB account, I agree.

The old adage, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" certainly has real world merit. I see it every day. No, you are correct, under RIC's warrantee policy, they are under no obligation to repair Rick's bass. Just as they were under no obligation to repair my flaking finish. I dropped my issue because my bass is perfectly playable, while Rick's is not. It's reasonable to assume that Rick's bass has had neck angle issue for quite sometime. It most likely existed prior to his warrantee expiring two years ago.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't have a dog in this race. I'd just like to see a bit more understanding, communication, and compassion. Maybe I'm asking a bit to much, maybe I'm not, but one thing is for certain, I know what is right and wrong. This just feels wrong. Rick attempted to communicate with RIC and got hung up on so once again him seeking any kind of resolution is over. With very few options and feeling abandoned, this matter is now being aired here on this forum. Right or wrong, everyone now has the opportunity to "weigh in on the court of public opinion". Will it help Rick's situation? No, probably not but it does feel good to find others that agree with you and tell you your not crazy for feeling the way you do. I'm sure if the lines of communication were still open, it would not have come to this.

Sepp

[congerz83]

Again, I am not trying to start any problems. I showed no disrespect to the Hall family (that I know of). I just was speaking facts. I DID speculate what I though happened, but I clearly stated that it was speculation.

Mr Hall's contributions are something I ALWAYS make sure I stop to read when I look through a thread. They are helpful and insightful. When this issue is straightened out, I still want this thread to be a showcase for a very cool project Mark and I are working on. I merely expressed my disappointment (not anger) at the situation. I also explained facts of the situation as I interpreted them. I don't want to turn this into a problem and I made sure to PM the admins to let them know that. The fact is, it is no longer under warranty, and I understand that. I just wanted to showcase the issues I was having and how I was spoken to. No more, no less. I've expressed my feelings, I stand by everything I've stated on this thread, and that's as far as I am going to go with it. I don't want the thread to be locked or removed. From now on, I want it to be positive, and I no longer have anymore disappointment to express. I'm moving on.

My further additions to this thread will only be how the issue with the neck will be corrected (by Mark), and this McCartney conversion that I still find very exciting despite the events of the last week.

Stay tuned for a real b*tchin' conversion.