The CORRECT McCartney Conversion...

[Grey]

The C Series bass IS a 4001 and many 4001's HAVE been adversely affected by high tension strings over the years. The primary raison d'être of the 4003 is the change in construction to accommodate heavier tension strings.

Well, you specifically mentioned the C Series so I was unsure if that meant all 4001 basses. So just to be perfectly clear for my own future reference, 4003 basses do not have a warranty voiding clause about high tension strings.

[cassius987]

If I remember correctly the big problem on 4001 basses were the hairpin trussrods, not the neck joint.

My '76 4001FL would beg to differ with you there. The big pickup rout did cause some fallaway that I had to correct with countersinking the tailpiece, but the neck itself (in terms of relief) is almost literally rock solid and I attribute this to the truss rods, as otherwise it is hard to explain its resistance to seasonal changes and string tension.

[johnhall]

Well, you specifically mentioned the C Series so I was unsure if that meant all 4001 basses. So just to be perfectly clear for my own future reference, 4003 basses do not have a warranty voiding clause about high tension strings.

But of course they do! However, the universe of acceptable strings is much wider on the 4003 (and 4004) as they are quite different. The set as supplied from the factory is near the upper range when applied to the 4001 but only in the middle range with regard to the 4003.

[bobbolux]

And yet, people put modern tension strings on these instruments and expect them to accommodate this..

I hope some of you can chime in here, as I have only been playing bass since 1981 - were bass strings really THAT low of tension back then? really?
of course there are many more manufacturers and choices these days, but I'm sure there was still a wide variation from the different available options in the mid to late 60's as well.

also, we are talking Macca inspiration in this thread, but you can argue that even more people were brought to the 4001, and all of it's vintage incarnations, through the (possibly higher tension) grindy rotosound tones of Squire, Entwistle, and Geddy....?

if someone would have put roundwounds on his or her Chris Squire signature bass would it have voided the warranty, as the original bass design was apparently only supposed to be used with low tension flats?

[ilan]

What makes the neck weaker in 4001's? If it's the hairpin truss rods, then v63's and C64's should be stronger, but they aren't. If it's the pickup route being close to the neck heel, then post-'75 basses should have no problem, but they often do, and 4004's should be weak, but they aren't. That leaves just the neck wood construction, right?

[johnallg]

What makes the neck weaker in 4001's? If it's the hairpin truss rods, then v63's and C64's should be stronger, but they aren't. If it's the pickup route being close to the neck heel, then post-'75 basses should have no problem, but they often do, and 4004's should be weak, but they aren't. That leaves just the neck wood construction, right?

AND the size, depth, and style of the rout for the neck pickup.

I think another reason the 4001 necks with the hairpin rods are so stable is because of the 3-piece construction.

[Colonel Sanders]

What makes the neck weaker in 4001's? If it's the hairpin truss rods, then v63's and C64's should be stronger, but they aren't. If it's the pickup route being close to the neck heel, then post-'75 basses should have no problem, but they often do, and 4004's should be weak, but they aren't. That leaves just the neck wood construction, right?

AND the size, depth, and style of the rout for the neck pickup.

I think another reason the 4001 necks with the hairpin rods are so stable is because of the 3-piece construction.

I would think so too.

[Badanovski]

I laugh every time someone compares the old fenders to the old Rics & implies the Rics were of inferior quality. Comparing the 2 basses is like comparing apples & oranges. Yes they're both fruit but............ I was told when I bought my new 1974 4001 not to use thicker gauge strings & that roundwounds would go through the frets in nothing flat. The bass was awesome so I had him throw in a set of 45-105 Rotosound swing bass strings. Ya take yer chances. Guess what went on the bass as soon as I got home. I felt the sound was worth the limited lifespan. Those Rics were designed with a different vibe in mind. How were they supposed to know that most people were going to ignore their warnings for the ultimate tone.

[ilan]

Those Rics were designed with a different vibe in mind. How were they supposed to know that most people were going to ignore their warnings for the ultimate tone

How did Fender know, and Gibson, and Gretsch, Dano, Harmony, Vox, Kay, Mosrite, Eko, Silvertone, and every other bass manufacturer except Rickenbacker. It was a design flaw, and it was corrected in 1985. Nothing would have hurt "the vibe" had the necks been a little stronger from the start.

[Hotzenplotz]

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6677/y3n4.jpg

Looking at the pic I wonder how much wood is left at the thinnest point still? The body is 1 1/4" thick. And the routing took a lot of material away. Unfortunaltely the complete center log is routed what must create a predetermined breaking point, functionally spoken.

Talking about this special bass: additionally there is a wrongly routed, extra deep pocket - what made the center log extra thin and that issue so big. How much wood is left, up to 10mm, at all? For every bass with a pocket like this a bending neck is a bigger danger than the design had in mind - even with "correct" strings.

[Badanovski]

had the necks been a little stronger from the start

The necks are fine. It's where the neck meets the body wings. A bit thin. Still you're right. They should have designed the body thicker with a bolt on neck. Oh, but then it would sound different. & yes they have improved the design but my 93 4000s is starting to pull a bit. Still back in 74 I wouldn't have thought a Rick bass could last 20 years. I can pull back on the headstock on my 4004 & get vibrato. Difficult to do on a P bass. While the design is not perfect are you willing to give up the tone for a " better design " ? Your supposed design flaw contributes to the sound.

[congerz83]

Your supposed design flaw contributes to the sound.

Yeah, and in my case, made the bass unplayable by simply installing flat-wound strings that MANY on this forum use. (Exact brand and gauge)

[FabGearHead]

I have been following this thread and have come to the conclusion that, with all of the various perspectives, there is no sure-fire response to please everyone.
In all actuality, John Hall's analogy using cars for an example, is a good one. I love old British cars, MGBs in particular. If you have one and it needs some brake fluid, you MUST use Castrol fluid. The Brits used a natural rubber for their seals and standard brake fluid causes them to swell, break down, and shortly after, fail, leaving the car without brakes. The cars got a bad reputation as "****," "junk", etc...

Were they flawed? Were the brakes faulty? Who was to blame? British Leyland? I too have tried many different strings on my Ricks through the years. FORTUNATELY, none have harmed my basses. I never cared for Rotosound due to the tension I felt as I played them. Too stiff! As a repair tech/luthier, I have worked on many Rick basses which had the need for neck work. Truss rod adjustments were quite common. Truss rod replacement on occasion. Heat-pressing the neck now and then. Why didn't ALL Rick basses have these problems? Because of the one variable that cannot be controlled completely and is often overlooked, the maple and rosewood used in building the neck. The necks were built in one long piece of maple to which the body "wings" were glued.
The fingerboard was glued to this maple, increasing its strength and its ability to resist the bowing effect caused by string tension. The double truss rods were inserted under the fingerboard to help with controlling the bowing and allowing for adjustments to counter the offset tension of the strings. This tension would have a tendency to warp or "twist" the neck down its length.

All wood is different in regards to stiffness. Cutting up tonewoods from logs that were split and air-dried for 30 years has shown me that, even being right next to each other in the log, the pieces when cut into guitar sets will be quite different from each other. Even with using the greatest care in selecting excellent woods, Rickenbacker is still somewhat at the mercy of nature. Hence, the need for caution.


Jim

[walker]

"And in the end..."





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[congerz83]

I should've brushed out my beard...