Why do Rics have neck heels? Seriously, why?

[ilan]

Most other neck-thru's don't have them... Has anyone tried to shave the heel and see what happens?

[sloop_john_b]

There's no money above the 5th fret anyway.

[cassius987]

Does it get in your way? I've never felt it when playing and I do plenty of stuff at the end of the fingerboard when I improvise.

Maybe it's there to help the bass rest against your body. Maybe it's just a vestige of old design. I have no idea.

[teeder]

Wow John! You get all the way to the 5th?

[collin]

Guitars without a neck heel look ridiculous.... just saying.

It's just not in RIC's design DNA to make some kind of slick, modern heel-less neck-through. Would look silly, IMO.

[johnhall]

It seems obvious to me that it was done originally for strength, that is, moving back more on the neck the point at which the structure got thinner. It wouldn't surprise me if removing the heel didn't also reduce the sustain a bit- but I'm not going to find out.

[ilan]

This is what got me thinking. 4004's have about a third of the heel removed, for total access to the higher frets.

[cassius987]

This is what got me thinking. 4004's have about a third of the heel removed, for total access to the higher frets.

But do you actually notice the heel on a 4001 or 4003?

[teeder]

I don't.

[ilan]

I'm not complaining, I play upright, where there's gigantic heel (neck block) under Eb ("8th fret")... I was just curious.

[FabGearHead]

When you really study the issue of mass and how it pertains to rigidity, it can be mind boggling.

I was at a luthier symposium where Paul Reed Smith gave a talk in which he explained the complexities which caused the "rising tongue" issue in Fender necks.
This is where the section of a Fender bolt on neck which fits in the body pocket, appears to rise up, requiring the frets to be cut down low in this area to prevent buzzes.

Now, remember, there is no heel to speak of in Fender bolt on necks, just a transitional area. PRS explained the issue as he was given to understand it by an excellent engineer. The engineer's explanation was that guitar necks which had ADJUSTABLE truss rods, no extra mass in the heel area, string tension pulling against the linear compression of the truss rod, and a short section of the neck held solidly by the body, results in Ship Mast Syndrome. In other words, the wood is subject to simultaneous and conflicting forces causing wonky-ness!

The thing I appreciate about Ricks are that they are solid in their design and, with few exceptions, well executed to the extent that in all my years of working on stringed instruments, I have never encountered a Rick with a wonky neck. Bowed necks, sure, in every brand guitar or bass. That's not a problem except in very cheap instruments.

I have seen that there are many ways being used to reduce the bulk in necks in the transitional area and some are very cleverly done.

Jim

[ilan]

That's very interesting, Jim, thanks. Never thought of it this way. I should research more into this effect.

So in heel-less neck-thru's, I should expect a Ship Mast Syndrome? There are multi-string basses with a massive string pull and a heel-less design. Like this Ibanez 7-string bass:

[FabGearHead]

Ilan, With many of the modern designs, there are numerous ways to reinforce the neck to avoid problems. Carbon fiber inserts help greatly to stiffen the neck and they are super light weight and amazingly strong.

Another thing is that truss rod designs have evolved and many are based on the old(!) Rick design which eliminates the linear compression.
From the looks of your bass neck, it's not going to move!


Jim

[jps]

Another thing is that truss rod designs have evolved and many are based on the old(!) Rick design which eliminates the linear compression.


Jim

Are you referring to the modern double rod design such as these from Stewmac? They are actually superior in design to the old hairpin truss rods in that they can correct for both forward and backward bowing of a neck, although they are heavier. I have a few basses with these rods in them, they do indeed work as advertised.

[FabGearHead]

Jeff, I was indeed referring to that design! The double rod system works amazing and I use it in nearly every guitar I make.

I clearly remember the first hair-pin truss rods I ever replaced in a Rick bass. It was fairly straight forward and the fact that the fingerboard did not have to come off was the icing on the cake!

Jim