'87 Rose Morris 1993 Question.

[tvking]

Hi All,
I was reading over on Bjorn Eriksson's website an article on the 1993 RM reissues. It's mentioned there that a manager at Sam Ash named Jimmy D. ordered approximately twelve RM 1993 guitars in 1987: 6- twelve strings and 6-six strings. The differences he asked for were an "R" tailpiece and a bound body. My questions are; Is there an accepted serial number range for these guitars or a known method to prove that you may have one of these twelve or so pieces?

[libratune]

I found this one on the Register, FWIW: http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... p?id=11574

I would think the combination of f-hole, bound body, dot fretboard and date code (1987) are pretty good markers for this limited run.

[JakeK]

From what I've seen, it appears that this very limited run of special guitars was made between March and April of 1987, and predated the first artist signature model (Pete Townshend) by three months.

There appears to be a couple instances where there was a trapeze tail instead of an R:



Whether that it was original or a modification is the question to the original owner(s).

FWIW, my own '87 360/12V64 was made during the middle of the run (March) of these Jimmy D guitars, and features a fireglo finish very similar to them.

[collin]

Other than the '87 batch, this model has never even reissued - I think if you found one with an '87 date, its pretty safe to assume it's one of the Sam Ash batch.

Do tell though, did you find one?

[jsm610]

Other than the '87 batch, this model has never even reissued

I may not be following, but if you're saying they only made 1993 reissues in '87 then that's not accurate...

[k43rover]

Other than the '87 batch, this model has never even reissued - I think if you found one with an '87 date, its pretty safe to assume it's one of the Sam Ash batch.

Maybe I'm dreaming Collin, but I recall reading somewhere (probably an old thread on here!) that there were more 1993 reissues made in similar very limited numbers during the early/mid '90's (maybe exports for Japan?). If that's right, they too would most likely have been based on the V series specs like the Sam Ash ones (i.e. no X-bracing etc).

My old Sam Ash 6 was definitely originally made with the R (although I retrofitted an Accent). That guitar was an April '87 DOM code. From the ones I've noted for sale over the past few years, I'd say they were all made on or around that date.

[k43rover]

Hi All,
My questions are; Is there an accepted serial number range for these guitars or a known method to prove that you may have one of these twelve or so pieces?

Hi Marshall. Seems that the DOM code would need to be on or around April 1987 to make it possibly one of this small batch of guitars made for Sam Ash. I'm attaching a picture of the cavity markings from my Sam Ash 1993 six string. I would expect to see something similar to this inside any of this batch as it seems they were all made as part of the same small production run. The other thing to note is that although the cavity is marked up as FG the actual colour of the paint on these guitars is not consistent with any other factory stock "Fireglo" shading I have ever seen. There is very little (if any) red in the mix; it's much more of a brown tint (more like a light Tobaccoglo than a Fireglo). I'm attaching another couple of pics of my old guitar which I think are a pretty accurate representation of this bespoke colour (although of course how you see it will depend on the characteristics and setting of your monitor etc). From what I've seen of other guitars made in this 1987 batch, I think they all had this bespoke shading and if that's right it would be a clear test of whether a guitar was originally part of this one off batch or not. Hope this helps.

[tvking]

Thanks for the info, Gentlemen. We recently acquired one of these guitars, serial # D0 9203 and the color is not quite the typical reddish FG, but a darker, browner type. I'll get a picture up soon. Dang thing is, it's a lefty.

[k43rover]

Dang thing is, it's a lefty.

Wow! That could very well be one of a kind! Just to help with the colour benchmarking, I'm attaching a garden shot I took of the Sam Ash 6 next to some "standard" Fireglo guitars (the other two are 1967 guitars with original factory FG finish typical of that year). As you can see, the "Fireglo" on the Sam Ash guitars is dramatically different...

serial # D0 9203

My six string was less than ten digits away from yours....open and shut case IMHO - you have one very rare (unique?) Sam Ash lefty 1993 Rick

[collin]

Other than the '87 batch, this model has never even reissued

I may not be following, but if you're saying they only made 1993 reissues in '87 then that's not accurate...

AFAIK, it's an accurate statement.

They have made one-offs (Tom Petty etc), and some 360/12v64 models with an F-hole (not a 1993), but there has never been another full production (or large batch) 1993 reissue since these in 1987.

I'd love to be proven wrong though!

[k43rover]

I'd love to be proven wrong though!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=390664

Quote from thread: "Variations of the 1993 were ordered in 1994 for Norman's Rare Guitars, one of which is owned by John Minutaglio, with gold pickguards, TRC and hardware, and an usual bound dot neck". Would be nice to see some pictures of these NRG guitars.

[krick]

This thread has some good information about these and similar models:

viewtopic.php?p=183205#p183205

[collin]

I'd love to be proven wrong though!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=390664

Quote from thread: "Variations of the 1993 were ordered in 1994 for Norman's Rare Guitars, one of which is owned by John Minutaglio, with gold pickguards, TRC and hardware, and an usual bound dot neck". Would be nice to see some pictures of these NRG guitars.

I knew of the NRG run, but they had triangle inlays (one was recently on eBay for $3.9k). In my opinion, triangle inlays and gold plastic make it not a 1993 reissue, but a variation of the V64, with f-hole.

In other words, if that was presented from RIC as a "reissue" of the 1993, I think people would quickly point out what isn't on-spec to an original 1993.

[jsm610]

I knew of the NRG run, but they had triangle inlays (one was recently on eBay for $3.9k). In my opinion, triangle inlays and gold plastic make it not a 1993 reissue, but a variation of the V64, with f-hole.

Yes, they had triangle inlays, except for the ones that didn't have triangle inlays.

In other words, if that was presented from RIC as a "reissue" of the 1993, I think people would quickly point out what isn't on-spec to an original 1993.

RIC presents the triangle-inlay 1993 as a '1993SPC'' and the dot inlay 1993 as a '1993SPC' (at least per the warranty cards I have). I assume SPC was short for somewhat-period-correct.

[k43rover]

I knew of the NRG run, but they had triangle inlays (one was recently on eBay for $3.9k). In my opinion, triangle inlays and gold plastic make it not a 1993 reissue, but a variation of the V64, with f-hole. In other words, if that was presented from RIC as a "reissue" of the 1993,I think people would quickly point out what isn't on-spec to an original 1993.

As far as I can tell, the 1987 Sam Ash "1993 reissue" guitars are little/no different with regard to accuracy of reproducing '60's specs than the later NRG 1993SPC guitars. For starters you couldn't get a much clearer non sequitur than "reissuing" a six string version of a guitar which was never originally made in that format. Both the Sam Ash and NRG guitars are way closer to each other in spec (or indeed to any standard late '80's or 90's era V series reissue) than they are to any original 1964/5 Rose Morris model 1993. Regardless, I expect most of us would have no problem agreeing that they are all stunningly beautiful guitars in their own right.