Bent over a barrel in England??

[Len]

the one on ebay is not new.

Thanks, that's my point.

[jdogric12]

I can't recall ever seeing a used 381v69 that wasn't in near mint or mint condition. So of all the models, I think you can be relatively more assured that a used 381 will be in great shape, since they're so expensive (meaning people take care of them).

[TSS]

OK, lets forget the stores selling them who may or may not be dealers, lets look at the comparable RRP on some of the available models.
This price comparison uses the price list on the official Rickenbacker website for the US RRP, and Rosetti's website (Official UK distributor) for the UK RRP.

330/6 US $1999 UK $3292
360/6 US $2499 UK $4116
370/12 US $3129 UK $5104
325C64 US $3599 UK $6257
381/12V69 US $5409 UK $8892

As Mr Hall says, after initially trying to justify the ridiculous difference in prices with mention of shipping and tax costs etc, he basically confirmed that in truth the European distributors are left to charge as much as they think that they can get away with. One would presume from the comments of Mr Hall that Rickenbacker don't care about this. You don't like being shafted? then don't buy it, they say. Nice attitude.
So the answer to the original question is definitely yes.
It's a shame, because 5 years ago the prices of new Rickenbacker guitars in the UK were comparable with those in the US once Tax and duty etc were taken into consideration. So what changed?
I've also seen it mentioned elsewhere on the forum that some people in the UK and Europe import directly from the US, as even with all the added extras this works out cheaper than buying in Europe. This was probably a viable option a few years ago, but lately with the varying degrees of quality control that we've seen on new guitars coming out of the factory, a claim which has been backed up with various testimonies and photographic evidence on numerous other forums as well as this one, and the recent emergence of lots of flawed or damaged new 'B' stock guitars now being sold by official dealers in the UK, that buying a new Rickenbacker without any sort of warranty is definitely a very risky business.

It would be appreciated if all replies to this were kept on topic, and that forumites don't retort with personal attacks against me, as seems to be the norm on here.
Thankyou.

[antipodean]

Hi Tim,

At least part of the difference over 5 years is due to the appreciation of the pound v the USD and the fact that prices are often "sticky" in a downwards direction (i.e. prices rarely fall - particularly if demand has not fallen). The pound has appreciated a little under 20% over your time frame and the distributor and/or retailers basically haven't passed on the savings to customers. This has also been the case down here in Oz with a large number of imported brands.

[jps]

330/6 US $1999 UK $3292
360/6 US $2499 UK $4116
370/12 US $3129 UK $5104
325C64 US $3599 UK $6257
381/12V69 US $5409 UK $8892

It would be appreciated if all replies to this were kept on topic, and that forumites don't retort with personal attacks against me, as seems to be the norm on here.
Thankyou.

Being a bit defensive, I see?

RIC does not call the shots as to what a distributor in a country other than the USA can place on the products as to MSRP/RRP they distribute/sell. If you feel that you are personally getting shafted by the prices you have to pay in your country that leaves a couple (or more) options for you. Take you complaints up with the distributor in the country you live in, or perhaps move/relocate to a country that has the kind of prices you are will to pay for products (I would think this pricing discrepancy is not solely a Rickenbacker thing).

[Lefty4001]

Tim,

This particular problem of yours clearly lies with the distributor. Once they pay RIC for the guitars, John Hall doesn't factor in. Maybe you could make an offer based on the current exchange rate and the US price, but if the guy next to you will pay what they ask, what can you (or anyone else) do? John Hall even told you directly that RIC sells the instruments for less to these distributors, placing the burden of warranty with those distributors. The money is going into British pockets. What don't you get? If you couple that with the conjecture and niggling that you seem to bring in never ending sentences, then you might open yourself up for some backlash.

That being said, I'd be upset too because it seems you are bent. I can't believe some of the price differences (good list, Tim). That sucks. The strength of the British Pound against our dollar isn't being passed along in the listed prices. If you have a quality guitar tech/luthier (or can do the work yourself), consider if you need the warranty. If not, buy American.

The guitar will NOT arrive set up to your exact liking (not unique to RIC), anyway, so you would want to do that upon receipt regardless. If you buy from one of the respected dealers often mentioned here, then all you risk is damage during shipment. Speak with someone there and take the extra steps to make yourself feel good about the transaction. I honestly don't know what you would have to pay for import taxes and such, but if the math works out, consider where your currency will go furthest. My wife's family lives in Japan and we've done similar things in the past when it made sense.

[deaconblues]

..perhaps move/relocate to a country that has the kind of prices you are will to pay for products...

That's a little extreme, don't you think?

[TSS]

I'm not doubting that people are prepared to pay the inflated prices in the UK, but the original question wasn't whether I was prepared to pay the UK prices or not, it was whether in comparison to the US prices are we being shafted? And the answer is definitely yes. We are paying on average 80% more for exactly the same products. The figures speak for themselves.
With regards to Rickenbacker having no control over pricing outside of the US, that's surprising.
If you compare a company like Gibson, whom some would say have too much control as they seem to put unreasonable demands on small retailers in particular who stock their goods, in respect to everything from pricing, to which and how many models are stocked, and how and where they are displayed in stores.
John Hall didn't even know if one of the biggest musical instrument retailers in Europe (Thomann) are actually an authorized Rickenbacker dealership!!
Gibson also offer things like '5 star dealerships' with exclusive models etc to further promote the brand.
I know that some of the UK dealers have received limited runs of guitars from Rickenbacker, but Guitar Guitar still have some of their limited run brown burst guitars for sale two years on, and have actually had to drop the price below that of regular models just to shift them......

[David Watts]

330/6 US $1999 UK $3292
360/6 US $2499 UK $4116
370/12 US $3129 UK $5104
325C64 US $3599 UK $6257
381/12V69 US $5409 UK $8892

Thomann (Germany)
http://www.thomann.de/fr/rickenbacker_modeles_es.html
Rickenbackers in stock
330/6 1799 euros / 2446 usd
370/12 2968 euros / 4035 usd

Woodbrass (France)
http://www.woodbrass.com/guitare+rickenbacker
Rickenbackers in stock
330/6 1944 euros / 2643 usd
360/6 2439 euros / 3316 usd
360/12 2,862 euros / 3891 usd
Even more Rics on their webpage.

Just don't buy in England.
It will even be less expensive for you because of the value of the British Pound compared to the euro.

[jps]

I'm not doubting that people are prepared to pay the inflated prices in the UK, but the original question wasn't whether I was prepared to pay the UK prices or not, it was whether in comparison to the US prices are we being shafted? And the answer is definitely yes. We are paying on average 80% more for exactly the same products. The figures speak for themselves.

Perhaps, but again, you need to take that issue up with the distributor in your country, they are the ones setting the price there, not RIC. John Hall has even stated that RIC gives them a discount on what they pay for product, what your distributor decides to to after that is totally up to them and them only. That Gibson runs things differently with their foreign distributors is totally irrelevant to this situation, they are a different company that has no relationship to RIC.

[cjj]

As for John Hall not knowing whether a dealer in Germany is actually an authorized Rickanbacker dealer, as I understand it, outside of North America, Rickenbacker sells to distributors such as Rosetti. The distributors handle it all from there, including who they want to use as dealers. So, John Hall wouldn't necessarily have any way of knowing whether an individual store is a dealer or not.

And as for setting prices, well, RIC doesn't set the prices in the U.S. either. The individual dealers are free to sell instruments at whatever price they think they can get, be it below or above the official "Retail Price." RIC does control the conditions under which dealers in North America operate such as not selling on ebay or outside North America (that may include South America too, I'm not sure about that), but not prices.

So, as others have said, your issue is with the distributors and dealers. I suspect you are getting "bent over" because that's what people are willing to pay...

[moleng1]

A question that maybe John could answer (or any dealers)??

Can authorized US dealers sell to other countries?? I know with some products (Harley for example) that US dealers can not sell new product into other countries where authorized dealers are selling the same product.

Seems even the prices in Germany and France are still $1000 higher than US prices, surely you can't write that off to shipping, VAT, etc?? If I lived in Europe I would definitely be looking to the US for new or used Rickys..................... Even here in Canada we have to pay full msrp for Ricks, take a 660/12 I see them advertised by US dealers for $2100 - $2300, here they are $2600 at L&M with no bargaining, frustrating!!

[johnhall]

As for John Hall not knowing whether a dealer in Germany is actually an authorized Rickanbacker dealer, as I understand it, outside of North America, Rickenbacker sells to distributors such as Rosetti. The distributors handle it all from there, including who they want to use as dealers. So, John Hall wouldn't necessarily have any way of knowing whether an individual store is a dealer or not.

That's generally true for most of our distribution areas- we don't usually know who the authorized dealers are- that's our distributor's domain. However, in the case of Thomann, I did know perfectly well their status but chose to be a bit coy as there are some very special circumstances in their situation.

And as for setting prices, well, RIC doesn't set the prices in the U.S. either.

"Can't" would be a better word and that applies to the EC as well. Any influence we might exert on pricing would be seen as "price fixing" and is illegal.

So, as others have said, your issue is with the distributors and dealers. I suspect you are getting "bent over" because that's what people are willing to pay...

This is absolutely correct and in the end it's the British consumers that are themselves setting the price. If they don't buy the product, the dealers will drop the price, just as was mentioned in the Guitar Guitar situation. The whole system is self-regulating. By the same token, it should be noted, of course, that if retail prices were to drop, so will resale prices of consumer owned product.

The comparison to Gibson and Fender is generally irrelevant as they self-distribute in most of Europe and can therefore set their own prices . . . and conditions . . . as they see fit. We've been there, done that, in the form of Rickenbacker (U.K.) and decided that business model was unwieldy for us.

[johnhall]

Can authorized US dealers sell to other countries?? I know with some products (Harley for example) that US dealers can not sell new product into other countries where authorized dealers are selling the same product.

There's no such thing as an "Authorized US Dealer". We only have "North American Dealers", who are permitted to sell only in Canada, the US, and Mexico . . . the NAFTA countries . . . with no restrictions. We are self distributed in those countries, just as I mentioned that Gibson and Fender are in most of Europe.

[rickenbottom]

Seems even the prices in Germany and France are still $1000 higher than US prices, surely you can't write that off to shipping, VAT, etc?? If I lived in Europe I would definitely be looking to the US for new or used Rickys..................... Even here in Canada we have to pay full msrp for Ricks, take a 660/12 I see them advertised by US dealers for $2100 - $2300, here they are $2600 at L&M with no bargaining, frustrating!![/quote

I,m not sure about L&M out in Vancouver but they dont sell RICS here in Ontario for list, at least not the ones I have purchased. My 2013 4003 $1799.00 and my 2013 330 $1675.00. I just checked the price list on the RIC website and the 660/12 list is $3100.00 as of January 1st 2014