Anyone have a toaster and HB1 in the same guitar?

[edski]

After a dozen years, I just have not bonded to my 650 Dakota. I love the feel the way it play, it's just that when I'm using it in a band situation the neck PU does nothing. The guitar essentially becomes a 1 pickup guitar - the bridge.

It's not the amp - my buddy is going through a 30 watt Peavey Classic, I'm going through a 120 watt Peavey Triumph. Similar amps, and I have no excuse for not getting dripping tone.

So before I give up on this guitar, is it worth exploring what the guitar might sound like with a toaster in the neck position? I figure the HB1 in the bridge works - that sound cuts through great. The neck just doesn't cut through a crowd.

Playing it solo the pickup sounds great and I can get some very good blends of the 2 pups.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[vjf1968]

Why not get a more powerful pickup from Seymour Duncan or Lollar? Heck, try a TV Jones Filtertron or a Mosrite style pickup from Hallmark or M3. The Mosrite style ones have hotter output than a P90. Put one of those in and you will not have any problems being heard.

[jps]

Why not get a more powerful pickup from Seymour Duncan or Lollar? Heck, try a TV Jones Filtertron or a Mosrite style pickup from Hallmark or M3. The Mosrite style ones have hotter output than a P90. Put one of those in and you will not have any problems being heard.

Have you considered that Ed probably does not want to route out his instrument to accommodate a non-drop-in pickup?

[aceonbass]

One reason the neck pickup might not be cutting through is the fact that when your guitar was built, most of the CTS pots coming out of RIC back then were around 180K. That's far from optimal for a humbucking pickup (or even a single coil), where the norm is 500K. Add to that the fact that RIC also used a cheap .047uF chicklet cap instead of a humbucking friendly .022-.033uF cap, and you end up with wiring that sucks the tone out of humbucking pickups. The RIC HB1 pickup is a great pickup that needs proper wiring to let open up.

[kennyhowes]

Sell it. To me.

[deaconblues]

I say go ahead and try a toaster. You won't know if you like it unless you try.

I do actually agree with Dane in that the wiring is not optimal for humbuckers in the traditional sense -- I've never heard a 650 that didn't sound super dark. But then JH knows his electronics so maybe that's what Rickenbacker was going for.

Another option which I have right now on my 330 (for the moment) is a Gibson Firebird mini-humbucker in a Hi-Gain case. It sounds pretty cool...but then mine uses 500k pots and a .22K cap

[edski]

Kenny - good to know there is a market.

Dane - That is good advice, I might try that before a pickup swap. There is no reason for that pu not to scream, I'll try and check the components. Will the capacitor value be easy to read?

[Ric5150]

Posted this on another thread the other day. A couple of guys have them:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... nt_count=1

[jdogric12]

I've owned two Sierras and two Atlantises, loved the look of them, but they've all sounded way too dark. They seem to be mostly good for collector value these days.

[edski]

I've owned two Sierras and two Atlantises, loved the look of them, but they've all sounded way too dark. They seem to be mostly good for collector value these days.

Do you feel it's hopeless to try and fix with new pot/caps or a new PU?

[DriftSpace]

One reason the neck pickup might not be cutting through is the fact that when your guitar was built, most of the CTS pots coming out of RIC back then were around 180K. That's far from optimal for a humbucking pickup (or even a single coil), where the norm is 500K. Add to that the fact that RIC also used a cheap .047uF chicklet cap instead of a humbucking friendly .022-.033uF cap, and you end up with wiring that sucks the tone out of humbucking pickups. The RIC HB1 pickup is a great pickup that needs proper wiring to let open up.

If it means anything: Dane built me a new harness for my 4003 and it's absolutely fantastic. I've since had some wiring done on a few other instruments by local people, and Dane's work is by far the best of the bunch. His price was pretty reasonable as well. I would highly recommend enlisting him to build a new harness for your 650.

[beefandbones]

Yes, I have tried that!

I liked it, actually. I tried it both ways, and dug the way they complimented each other. I personally preferred the HB1 in the neck and the toaster at the bridge because it gave a real Grestchy kind of tone, to my ears. Having the toaster in the neck with the HB1 at the bridge was cool too, and worked better in higher gain situations. I used a 12k toaster, but I don't recall their being a big discrepancy in output between the pickups. I also tried a hi-gain in there with the HB1 and that was good too.

The Lollar Broiler pickup is a toaster design that actually kind of resembles the HB1, if you don't like the look of mismatched pickups. Although it'll have a lower output than the 12k toaster I used.

[jdogric12]

I've owned two Sierras and two Atlantises, loved the look of them, but they've all sounded way too dark. They seem to be mostly good for collector value these days.

Do you feel it's hopeless to try and fix with new pot/caps or a new PU?

No clue, sorry. I never gave that a chance.

[edski]

No clue, sorry. I never gave that a chance.

No need for sorrow. Just be happy!!!

I'm really leaning towards getting a toaster for the neck, but will probably try changing the pots and caps first as it will be a lot cheaper. If I eventually get a toaster and still can't fall in love with the 650 I can sell it with the extra PU, and if I do like it I'll have an extra HB1 around for an already forming idea for another custom bass...

Now for timing...there's nothing pressing me to act fast (other than my wife nagging me to put the 650 - in its case - somewhere other than the dining room).

[BuddyDog]

Suzanna Hoffs and Mike Campbell do...