'68 4001 Opinions?

[Kopfjaeger]

Jon,

Please do keep us posted on how you make with this bass! Better/clearer fotos of the pup will help. Like I said, i love 1968's! If you need Dane's email address, let me know.

7k is a ton of money for something you may have to sink more money into to get right but that's what these seem to fetch nowadays. That's what I paid for my 1968 Burgundyglo and it needed electronics work and the correct treble pup!! Scarey!! There was another 1968 Fireglo for sale in Toronto last winter that looked nice but was screwed with. If I remember correctly that one was at or very near the 7k mark as well.

You can find the correct Ajax caps on ebay. I think they are 400v rated. They are the rounded end ones although lesser rated, volt wise, would do. I defer to Tony on the correct bobbin for your treble pup. I have no idea when the phase in date was for the "newer" green bobbin. There are no hard and fast dates for when things changed at RIC. I'm told early 1969 is a possibility for a horsie even though late 1968 they began to appear with the green bobbin and the magnet mounted underneath. I would not be surprised if there were horsie basses next to non horsie basses on the assembly line at some points during late 1968!

Sepp

[s4001]

Yep. I have no reason to think otherwise, but my bridge pup is a non-horsie and it's original.

[RickyBubba]

I hate to ask the question not being well versed in the older basses, but does the price seem fair?

Not knowing better, it seems to be a little on the high side?

Another option could be a nice V63 re-issue bass. Have you played one of those, they get really nice reviews and would be about half this cost or less on a good day?

[s4001]

I've played many reissues and several mid 60's Rics. There's quite a difference.
The old basses have a tone presence that I haven't heard in any new basses. Just like some old magic Strats, P's, or J's - some of those old instruments (that survived) just have a mojo that can't be duplicated. Maybe it's the dried wood, old magnets - I don't know.
There's a reason people RAS over the old basses.

[teeder]

I agree, I have both a '67 4001S/RM1999 and a very nice '92 4001V63.
There's no comparison.

[wints]

If it was all original, then that asking price would be about right. It didn't sell back in 2012 for that price and it shouldn't be any different now.

With the horseshoe and harness replaced, that's 20% there, and should reflect in price. For me a $5K bass tops in the current (very) depressed market.

I do love that 60's MG however...

[RickyBubba]

Thanks for the honest feedback, I learned some more.

[mc2NY]

Can someone tell me exactly what pots belong in a mid 1968 4001 wiring harness?

Are they CTS brand or something else?

I see some are solid shaft and some are split shaft on mid-60s Ric harnesses I see? Are they short shaft or long, since the 4001 pickguards are a little thick? Also, what are the typical ratings of the pots?

I want to try and find a set of correct year used ones. If I know exactly what I need and cannot find a complete hardness, I can find separate pots elsewhere if I know exactly what is correct.

Thanks.

[Kopfjaeger]

Jon,

I can't answer all your questions but I know that both solid and split shafts are correct and can both be in your harness. My 1965 contained both solid and spit shafts. Obviously anything dated 69 or later would not be correct in a 1968 harness. Anything dated later 67 and through mid 68 works. I've been lucky, both my 60's 4001'as had the correct and original pots. Unfortunately both basses needed to be rebuilt, harness wise. The pots were all over the map and some would not zero. Fortunately, the guy I used, Dane Wilder, was able to take the guts out of modern pots and re-case them with the date stamped 60's cases. The result is a new pot within 3% of spec in the original dated case.

Here are some of that procedure.

Has the bass arrived yet? if so, shoot us some better fotos. Regardless of the depressed market, that's what these basses are selling for. I realize that at this price there are less of a pool of interested buyers but that's what they are selling for in less than perfect shape. I got burned big time on mine but other 68's have tracked in the same neighborhood withing the past 8 months and all had "issues" to some extent. It's going to be a challenge to find a set of pots that match your vintage. Finding a vintage harness that meets your date range is going to be as difficult as finding a wide opening set of magnetic shoes and slotted pole piece green bobbin! The horsie in yours may be correct & original, which is a huge plus!!

Sepp

Sepp

[mc2NY]

I saw that you had your pots recused, which is why I thought I would try to find some late 67 - mid 68 ones. Figured if the guts were bad I could try the same trick to reload them.

I am just unsure of what pots are correct, since the pics of mid 60s Ric harnesses I see are sort of a mix. Rather odd to see split shafts mixed with the solid shafts, etc. but, yes, I read that was what they did.

I am more familiar with harnesses to mid 60s Thunderbirds and Fenders than Rics.

I'm supposed to drive down to pick up the bass this week...and eyeball it and play it in person to make sure it's not a dog.
Seller sounds familiar with them and says of many he's owned, this one has the best neck. I'm buying it to play, so that is a major plus. Would be nice if it was totally original but all the important stuff is there. I can always restore electronics.

The Horsie in my 68 I was told was replaced with "another Ric one." But I have a Horsie with magnetic shoes to drop in, so that is not an issue (pic.)

[wints]

Jon,

Usually, split shaft pots were used for volume, solid for tone. Original harnesses should be all cloth wiring. Looking at the overall condition of this bass, it's still overpriced as I mentioned earlier. I might have been slightly down on my original $5K but not by much. Finding intact original horseshoes on 60's basses is very difficult, and this one is no different. If it checks out, good neck, low action etc, and plays and sounds well it's potentially a $6K bass, but that should be it.

[Kopfjaeger]

Jon,

Usually, split shaft pots were used for volume, solid for tone. Original harnesses should be all cloth wiring. Looking at the overall condition of this bass, it's still overpriced as I mentioned earlier. I might have been slightly down on my original $5K but not by much. Finding intact original horseshoes on 60's basses is very difficult, and this one is no different. If it checks out, good neck, low action etc, and plays and sounds well it's potentially a $6K bass, but that should be it.

Andrew,

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. While I won't throw my 68 into the mix because I know I overpaid with all it's issues, the fact of the matter is, screwed with 1968 4001's are selling for 7k. Like it or not, and believe me, I don't like it.

The Toronto music shop 1968 sold for 7k + this past winter with a modern tailpiece and bridge as well as other issues, as per Vincent Gallo. The Brody 1968 4001 sold at 6.5k last fall with a repaired broken neck. It had a mean repair scar but I'm told she played very well. I do agree with your assertion that they are over priced but the truth of the matter is, they are selling for 7k and they are not case queens by any means!! Unless you know of a few recent 1968 sales for under 7k, I'm sticking to what the facts are showing me.

Like Jon said, he has a raised lip bobbin and shoes for this 1968 so he is way ahead of the curve although I think 1967/1968 dated pots are going to be very difficult to find.


The 1968 on the cover of Paul's book is up for sale. I 'm real curious to see what her asking price is.

Sepp

[s4001]

Considering other 'holy grails' of the vintage guitar world, I think '68 Ric basses (and earlier) are a little undervalued.

Let's face it, you can't get that tone, feel, and mojo anywhere else. They're incredibly rare. And unlike another brand that starts with an 'F', there aren't thousands of fake 60's Ric instruments floating around. And those other vintage instruments regularly fetch more than their Ric counterparts.

I'm going to give 50/50 odds this starts a flame war.

[Kopfjaeger]

Considering other 'holy grails' of the vintage guitar world, I think '68 Ric basses (and earlier) are a little undervalued.

Let's face it, you can't get that tone, feel, and mojo anywhere else. They're incredibly rare. And unlike another brand that starts with an 'F', there aren't thousands of fake 60's Ric instruments floating around. And those other vintage instruments regularly fetch more than their Ric counterparts.

I'm going to give 50/50 odds this starts a flame war.

Scott,

I agree with you. I know we'd all like to see lower prices on these vintage gems in order to own one and sometimes a great deal does come along where than can happen. For the most part it's going to cost an arm or a leg to own one of these instruments. I'm not happy about it but even in a depressed market, basses are not going to go below a certain amount. They just aren't. Hell, who would have thought that I could not sell a nicely restored 4002 for 6K??

I and other owners or vintage instruments would rather put them in storage and wait out the market because, as you mentioned, you can't find these too often and there were not a lot made to begin with. I also agree that the vintage instruments have a tone a feel that you just can't compare to newer ones. That is what your paying for.

Sepp

[wints]

It's still a very diverse market out there, with some real (relative) bargains occasionally.

I do know of basses that have been sold for less than what's being discussed here in the last 18months, including rarer basses than a '68. All sales were private. As ever YMMV and if your buying from a dealer then expect to potentially pay more.

Case in point. I know of a '68 at present with changed out hardware and electrics that will be slightly less than a 2012 4003 when I (hopefully) get it sometime in the future...and I also happen to know of a fabulous, totally original, *book cover* '68, that has never even had the pickguard removed, that surely should justify a 5 figure price tag if the bass being discussed here is selling for $7.5K...