Let's stop the serial number madness

[jdogric12]

I think it is rude to ask people for their serial number simply to collect it for a database. I also don't think RRF should be collecting serials off public auctions, even if the sellers were willing to post them publicly. What say ye? Am I in the majority or minority? If majority, let's stop the madness with a policy, shall we?

[iiipopes]

The reason for serial numbers is to affirm authenticity. With so many hackers, butchers and scammers, I am glad documentation is available.

[electrofaro]

I bet there are fakes in the register... how does one know if something is a fake or not? Some of the register entries have pictures so small under the "large format" links it's hard to tell what's shown on them!

Still, if some people like to collect them, let them... I don't see any harm in it!

[cassius987]

Why are you concerned about it Jason? Privacy? Some kind of potential for abuse of the info...?

[jps]

Let's see: counterfeiters have a database of real serial numbers available to them to put onto their fake instruments............

[jdogric12]

Let's see: counterfeiters have a database of real serial numbers available to them to put onto their fake instruments............

this, and more

[collin]

Stop the madness!!

Let's imagine for a minute these were automotive VIN. Collecting/posting these would be illegal in the United States. Why shouldn't that respect be paid to other belongings?


Plus the register will NEVER be complete and is riddled with inaccurate information. Why even bother?

[cassius987]

Let's see: counterfeiters have a database of real serial numbers available to them to put onto their fake instruments............

Has this ever actually happened?

this, and more

What's the more?

Stop the madness!!

Let's imagine for a minute these were automotive VIN. Collecting/posting these would be illegal in the United States. Why shouldn't that respect be paid to other belongings?


Plus the register will NEVER be complete and is riddled with inaccurate information. Why even bother?

I'm not necessarily against you guys on this, I just haven't thought about it much. If I had to guess most people on the RRF are probably in the same boat I am... I don't know many people who are rabidly collecting serials because they think it is their patriotic duty.


...If it's really that bad a situation how hard would it be for RRF to just purge the serial number records?

[collin]

I don't know many people who are rabidly collecting serials because they think it is their patriotic duty.

...I know at least one!

[cassius987]

Really? Weird.

[cjj]

Let's see: counterfeiters have a database of real serial numbers available to them to put onto their fake instruments............

Of course, if they use one that's already in the database, and they don't make it look just like the pictures in the database, it'll be a slight clue that it just might be a fake. Of course, for all of the ones without pictures, well...

[jps]

For those with photos, that allows for more accurate looking fakes. And the forgers know what model instrument a particular S/N belongs to to ensure they don't put a certain S/N on a 360 vs. a 4001, for example.

HEY CHINA, ARE YOU READING THIS?

[clementc3]

I preface my comments by saying I was not aware of a serial number forgery issue before reading this thread (but I lead a sheltered life) and I hadn't thought deeply about this before now, either.

That said, in defense of one serial number collector on this forum that I am aware of, I have on occasion found the tidbits of information that he has been able to deduce to be of interest.

The Register itself asks for and publishes serial numbers, and it allows anyone (I presume) to add "Collected Item" information, without requiring that only the legal owner can add their instrument information. If serial number information has been misused then perhaps the Register should be revised.

Out of curiosity, has there been an (or more than one) instance of serial number forgery in which the Registry information was (or at least might have been) used?

[jdogric12]

(in response to no one in particular) Just wait til someone files a police report with your serial number and you hear a knock at the door.

[sixtwentytwelve]

Seems to me that, on balance, the virtues of the Register and the wealth of information that it contains (photos of older Rics and Ric components, etc.) outweigh its potential downsides, although as far as serial nos. are concerned the Register contains some obvious errors (typos, etc.), and there is no way to eliminate the possibility that the Register (or, for that matter, any other information about historical/valuable instruments) might be "misused" for evil instead of good. Here are some thoughts: (1) anyone who would file a phony police report in an attempt to steal a Rickenbacker from its rightful owner would be putting him- or herself at substantial risk ("Hello, officer, I would like to intrude on your busy day to enlist your assistance in committing larceny (or worse)!"), and it's hard to imagine that an elaborate scam of that nature would survive a rational cost-benefit analysis even if someone with a criminal inclination considered attempting it; (2) there are (unfortunately) plenty of easier ways to "steal" an instrument (or, steal the money to buy one) than concocting a serial no. scam; (3) guitar serial nos. for all models and makes are already published or discernible in numerous places (through on-line serial no. decoders, on ebay, on dealer websites, by asking a simple question, etc.); (4) I once used the Register to confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that a purportedly vintage jackplate was a phonied-up replica, i.e., the Register can be affirmatively helpful in detecting scams; (5) although the Register confirmed my suspicions in that case, the jackplate in question was fraudulent in appearance for a number of reasons; (6) historical information of any kind relating to vintage instruments could be helpful in replicating them; serial nos. are not unique in that regard; (7) it would be quite a chore to make a convincing fake of a vintage Ric jackplate that would survive scrutiny by anyone with knowledge of vintage Rics; and (8) while the Register can be very illuminating, much of the information that it contains is available from numerous other sources, including but not limited to the serial no. decoder on the Rickenbacker website (which is also a very valuable resource).