GC Rickenbacker 4001S Special?

[jdogric12]

Wow, I sit here in stunned shock. It took a few minutes for what has been posted here to sink in before deciding to mount a reply. If RIC can't win over a somewhat favorable crowd here on the RRF then Houston, we have a problem. I'm a huge fan of Rickenbacker and have been so since I was a 17 year old kid playing in garage bands. Playing my first Rickenbacker imprinted itself on me and has never left me. Now I'm rapidly approaching 50 years of age and I'm able to indulge myself a little with a few iconic pieces of Rickenbacker history. After walking away from "music" and taking a 25 year break, the first instrument I purchased upon my re-entry was a Rickenbacker. Yeah, there was never a second thought. Mr. Hall, you have a huge amount of brand recognition and brand loyalty. I plead with you, please do not discount or dismiss your loyal fans! No one was hoping RIC would have created another Shadow with your latest GC offering more than I! Nearly 20 years after the Shadow was launched, I've never heard a negative review of it. Everyone that owns one or has owned one raves about it from top to bottom. My Shadow will be one of the last basses that leaves my hands.

It's no secret that I've moved away from gigging Rickenbackers. While I love the tone, the look, and feel, the idiosyncrasies of gigging them got to be a bit too much. Oh, when I'm home, I still grab a Rickenbacker to noodle with most of the time. I now gig Spectors exclusively. I really don't know if Spector is a bigger or smaller company than RIC, nor do I care. All I know is they do what they are supposed to do and they do it well, consistently. The times when I I have called Spector customer service, I've gotten the General manager, who use to be a Rickenbacker bass player btw, and he has never dismissed me or made me feel "less than". While I do not subscribe to the adage that the customer is always right, customer service should never make the customer feel like he is an idiot or a fool.

Mr. Hall, we are your biggest fans. We are not "yes men" and some of us call a spade a spade. Like I said, if you are unable to "win us over" then there is a problem. Please use it as constructive criticism and look for ways to make it better. To say GC contracted 50 instruments and it is what it is, don't buy it if your don't like it, is a cop out. It could have, and probably should have, been so much more.

Sepp

I'm always saddened to watch yet another person find out Santa Claus isn't real. But take comfort, new members, you're in very good company and we love you very much.

[Kopfjaeger]

I wanted to let the troops know that my GC/RIC adventure was a good one in this instance. I wonder sometimes if perhaps an inexperienced store employee removes an instrument from their case, and meaning well tries to do a set up on a bass. Mine was perfect, but that has not always been my experience. I bought a "Lemmy" from a New York dealer years ago and it arrived a mess. The dual rods had been improperly tightened to the point the neck had a "twist" in it. It took several experienced techs numerous adjustments to get the thing playable. It was clear someone had ham-fisted a very special instrument. My impression was the "work" was not done at the factory because of the sloppy tool marks under the headstock name plate.

Awesome!! I'm very glad your instrument was top notch and that you are thrilled with it!

Jdog, what do you mean there is not Santa Claus??? Are you screwing with me??

Sepp

[jps]

Jdog, what do you mean there is not Santa Claus??? Are you screwing with me??

Sepp

[bassduke49]

One of the great things about this Forum has been the participation by company representatives who received what I consider fair treatment and good give and take. The moderators seemed to have kept that relationship going, but this particular discussion seems to have brought out the worst in us and has done damage. Sad.

[k43rover]

One of the great things about this Forum has been the participation by company representatives who received what I consider fair treatment and good give and take. The moderators seemed to have kept that relationship going, but this particular discussion seems to have brought out the worst in us and has done damage. Sad.

It would be a much sadder day if we ever reach a point on this forum where people feel they can't express fact based views about factory quality based on their personal experience. From the comments/pictures posted above it seems clear that there are entirely legitimate concerns about the quality control on these LE bass guitars. I can't say I'm surprised. When I bought an LE six string a couple of years back there were obvious quality issues on all four of those that the retailer had in stock. While the RIC factory owners/managers may feel it is disrepectful for paying customers to voice these types of concerns in an open forum, my experience in industry has been that the vast majority of professional managers welcome this type of feedback, however painful it may be to hear, so it can be fed back into process improvement in the factory to improve quality for future customers. At the end of the day there should be no disconnect between factory management and customer expectations in this regard - both groups have a common shared interest in the factory consistently producing a high quality product. If processes were put in place to make that happen, there would be no threads like this for people to get upset by.

[bassduke49]

It's not the pointing out of problems or expressing disappointment that has driven JH away (again), it is the responses by a few people (some newbies, some old hands) suggesting JH's attitude toward customers is poor. Fer krissake, he comes here and answers questions with facts, and because he doesn't apologize or show sympathy to the disappointed, he's seen as being insensitive or oblivious. I think several of this thread's participants need to be considerably more understanding of human interactions.

[coolhandjjl]

I am one of those who experienced first hand very poor customer service from Ric. Not once, but twice. I am also self employed and deal with quite a number of vendors. Customer service varies among them from good to excellent. But I have never been treated worse than the way I was treated by Ric. And I would never dream of treating my customers as poorly as Ric has treated me.

Paul, not only have you expressed your being upset with members here as not engaging in discussion to your liking, you have also expressed that the moderators lack of intervening as being not to your liking either. I know you have a Ric book and lots of Ric basses to sell, but I don't think you should be a yes man and defend JH because of that. That really disappoints me. This is between JH and the marketplace and no one has asked you to volunteer to run interference.

Their attitude towards their customers is very poor and they do not appear to care about improving it, as evidenced by their not wanting to even hear about. That is not merely my opinion or the opinions of a few here, nor a false perception by a disgruntled few. Rather it is the reality of how they behave in the real world marketplace.

Paul, I'll paraphrase your own words here, "It's because he doesn't apologize or show sympathy to the disappointed, that he is seen as being insensitive or oblivious". That's how the world works. He shouldn't expect the world to act different towards him just because he runs Ric. He comes here with the attitude that the world is lucky to have him.

If JH were sensitive to human interaction, he would carefully take in the issues he reads here and say something like " I see, thanks for pointing that out", or perhaps "Yah, that one got away from us, we will try not to let that happen again", or "Great suggestion, it's important for me to hear firsthand what customers really think". That is what a true leader would do. They would suck it up with humility and express gratitude towards their customers, and in this economy, be grateful for having customers period. Instead, when he reads things he doesn't like, he has a tantrum and takes his ball & bat home. It's awfully hard to get down from a high horse gracefully. The first step is a doosie.

[rickfan63]

I am one of those who experienced first hand very poor customer service from Ric. Not once, but twice. I am also self employed and deal with quite a number of vendors. Customer service varies among them from good to excellent. But I have never been treated worse than the way I was treated by Ric. And I would never dream of treating my customers as poorly as Ric has treated me.

Paul, not only have you expressed your being upset with members here as not engaging in discussion to your liking, you have also expressed that the moderators lack of intervening as being not to your liking either. I know you have a Ric book and lots of Ric basses to sell, but I don't think you should be a yes man and defend JH because of that. That really disappoints me. This is between JH and the marketplace and no one has asked you to volunteer to run interference.

Their attitude towards their customers is very poor and they do not appear to care about improving it, as evidenced by their not wanting to even hear about. That is not merely my opinion or the opinions of a few here, nor a false perception by a disgruntled few. Rather it is the reality of how they behave in the real world marketplace.

Paul, I'll paraphrase your own words here, "It's because he doesn't apologize or show sympathy to the disappointed, that he is seen as being insensitive or oblivious". That's how the world works. He shouldn't expect the world to act different towards him just because he runs Ric. He comes here with the attitude that the world is lucky to have him.

If JH were sensitive to human interaction, he would carefully take in the issues he reads here and say something like " I see, thanks for pointing that out", or perhaps "Yah, that one got away from us, we will try not to let that happen again", or "Great suggestion, it's important for me to hear firsthand what customers really think". That is what a true leader would do. They would suck it up with humility and express gratitude towards their customers, and in this economy, be grateful for having customers period. Instead, when he reads things he doesn't like, he has a tantrum and takes his ball & bat home. It's awfully hard to get down from a high horse gracefully. The first step is a doosie.

I have to say I agree with this assessment of the situation. With the price tag associated with this instrument, people have the right to expect it to be first rate coming out of the box, or easily repaired with little or no effort. When it's not, they have the right to speak up. I didn't read anything posted that was out of line or disrespectful in any way. If there had been, I'm sure the moderators would have stepped in. With that said, JH can do whatever he wants to do. It's his company. Just my opinion YMMV.

[Lefty4003S8]

I, too echo agreement of the assessment. I have re-read this thread and have NOT been able to discern ANY disrespect toward Mr. Hall.

I AM, and WILL continue to be a loyal fan of Rickenbacker. And I have NEVER encountered any REAL problems with their products or customer service.
Having said that, it REALLY causes me concern to think that a few people with honest Q.C. issues can elicit the type of response(s) received.

AGAIN I say, I would hope if there is/are REAL issues, that the owner/managers would WANT to know and would take steps to correct said issues.

Furthermore---we are NOT "Yes-Men" here!!!!! We are owners/players/enthusiasts of a particular brand of musical instruments carrying the Rickenbacker name. WHO better for Mr. John Hall to hear from????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[eddied]

Hello members, just left the Ric International forum and I have been slammed for my truthfulness. i think that I will retire from the forum business. Befor I leave, I want everyone to know that i received 3 PM's that not only backed up my claims, but mentioned flaws that I did not notice (didn't keep it long enough). Anyway, this is my answer to what alot of the brown nose people were writing. Read their threads first. See ya!

I'm the Eddied guy. I never once slammed anyone about the the 4001S Special that I have just sent back. I own seven Rick basses and have owned close to 30 over a 40 year period. I have 2 C 64's as part of my collection. I can tweak ANY Rick bass to it's best playability. Action, intonation pickup height etc. I just want to state that the ONE I received had the issues that I discussed. Did I mention that when I opened the box at the GC store and slid the bass out that the right side latch was broken? The small catch was at the bottom of the box. After getting a very negative answer from Rick customer service, i took it anyway. That was the tip of the iceberg. NO ONE will convince me that the the spacing between the strings is OK to be different distances for any bass. Mine was terrible and the notch cuts were way off center on each saddle. I did not notice that in the store because I wanted it so much and just packed it up and drove home where i discovered the flaws. I'm not about to try and fix or adjust a $3300 bass. Whatever happened, I'm telling the truth because my passion for Rick basses is incredibly strong for a 62 year old player. I adore them and always will. There were 3 PRIVATE MESSAGES to me where other members had played and went over this model and were astounded by the flaws. i never posted pictures cause I felt my words were enough. I didn't intend to offend, I told the truth. I just returned it because IMO for the amount I spent, the product was not equal to my expectations. I still have my original 74 4001 MG and it plays like butter. Its to bad that my truthful review for some was taken so personal. Would if this happened to you, would you keep it and not let others know of your experience? I'll stay off these forums now because its obvious that the truth does hurt.

[bassduke49]

"Is JH done ranting yet? Good job Ric CEO! He's the one guy who will go to his grave insisting all their instruments are all perfect and it's the customers who have wrong expectations."

Golly, no disrespect there.

My complaint here is that this thread, which started out as a story about a single instrument's perceived faults, has snowballed into an indictment of RIC's overall QC, customer relations, JH's personality and business methods, whether the model in general is up to some pie-in-the-sky expectations (and ignoring the fact they were made to GC's order, not anyone else's), and now guilt by association for anyone who finds it disappointing that the conversation has lead to hurt feelings on either "side."

And now you're saying that I am a "yes man" because I have a book to sell; like I'm on RIC's dole. Hardly. The book is the child of THIS FORUM, not that of RIC. JH doesn't care whether there is a book or not (and I was very disappointed in him for that). And it's not like I'm making money on the book; if I were to have kept ledgers on my time and expenses on the book, I'd have fired myself long ago for being economically unrealistic. I'm not "defending" JH, but I'm sure beginning to understand how he feels.

[coolhandjjl]

"Is JH done ranting yet? Good job Ric CEO! He's the one guy who will go to his grave insisting all their instruments are all perfect and it's the customers who have wrong expectations."

Golly, no disrespect there.

My complaint here is that this thread, which started out as a story about a single instrument's perceived faults, has snowballed into an indictment of RIC's overall QC, customer relations, JH's personality and business methods, whether the model in general is up to some pie-in-the-sky expectations (and ignoring the fact they were made to GC's order, not anyone else's), and now guilt by association for anyone who finds it disappointing that the conversation has lead to hurt feelings on either "side."

And now you're saying that I am a "yes man" because I have a book to sell; like I'm on RIC's dole. Hardly. The book is the child of THIS FORUM, not that of RIC. JH doesn't care whether there is a book or not (and I was very disappointed in him for that). And it's not like I'm making money on the book; if I were to have kept ledgers on my time and expenses on the book, I'd have fired myself long ago for being economically unrealistic. I'm not "defending" JH, but I'm sure beginning to understand how he feels.

Paul, do you understand how some customers feel? I suggest walking in their shoes before coming to the aid of someone who didn't ask for your help to begin with and should be able to withstand any sort of customer comments by himself. After all, that's his job.

If I treated any one of my customers like the way Ric treated me, I'd have fired myself as well.

[Kopfjaeger]

For what it's worth, I feel bad that Mr Hall has decided to not post here anymore. I really do. I liked that he interacted with the forum, although many times his posts came off as somewhat sarcastic and sometimes demeaning. I too have had issues with RIC customer service but I never let my personal experiences color my interaction with Mr Hall. I've been able to maintain my high regard for Rickenbacker, the brand, but unfortunately I've not been a fan of RIC the company for quite some time.

As President or figurehead of a company, you need to have thick skin. I don't see anything egregious in this thread that would have made Mr. Hall quit. Unfortunately he left here but he left by his own choice. He offered no apologies for the instruments that were purported to be flawed. While I respect that, wouldn't the prudent thing to be to contact the GC in question and ask to have the instrument sent back to RIC for inspection?? A faulty/broken case? I'm sending out a replacement to the particular GC ASAP.. Instead we got, "if you don't like it, don't buy it" and the member who stated he heard the one way phone conversation about the broken case was a liar.

I would have expected a little more from the President of any company. If I didn't know better, I'd swear Mr Hall gave me the same verbal nonsense over the phone when I called RIC about a finish issue with my Jetglo bass. Now seeing the denial of any perceived flaws in his product, I know where his customer service reps obtain their mindset from.

Lastly, if the moderators truly feel I posted something to make Mr Hall leave the forum, please PM me and I'll terminate my membership here.

Sincerely,

Sepp

[rickboy88]

I wasn't going to jump in on this, but I wanted to relate a few things.

You'll notice that Paul Boyer's (whom I met in Colorado last fall) book is not listed in the Rickenbacker boutique on the Ric website, which backs up his point. Paul's background of being a Ric collector and magazine editor guy made him a good fit for compiling a book on the Ric basses. I'm glad he put the time into it. It was more a labor of love than anything else. A book like that won't have the market of most other books, so he won't be able to buy an island any time soon.

Just for the heck of it, I took out my older 4000 series basses to do some inspection. I have a 4001S (jetglo) from 1982 and a late 90's 4003 (fireglow). Both of the bridge pick-ups are installed more centered than the new GC 4001S basses appear to be, but both have the strings slightly off center of the "nibs" on the pickups due to the way the pickup sits in the metal surround.
In the new 4001S basses from GC, would the offset affect the response of certain strings in a bad way? I don't know enough about those pickups.

Regarding the string alignment cuts in the bridge saddle, my older 4001S has deep cuts, but the newer late 90's 4003 has much shallower cuts. Apparently there was a change in how deep the cuts were made after a certain point.

None of the bridge saddle cuts are perfectly centered on those basses. On the 1982 4001S, the E string saddle cut is just as off-center as the examples of the newer 4001S basses (the others are more centered). On the 4003, all of the cuts are slightly to the right (none are centered).

I don't know what other issues may have existed with the new GC 4001S basses, but thought it would be helpful to relate what I saw on my vintage basses.

Like Paul, I thought that the one comment regarding John Hall was a bit over the top (about ranting). There is no need for that.

[Badanovski]

It seems to me it's all about interpretation. When I read the exchange I got the impression Mr. Hall was waiting to see the the bass with QC problems before reacting. I thought he was mainly responding to the bitching about the bass not conforming to peoples expectations & GC's add copy & the high price. Hence the if you don't like it or don't think it's worth the money don't buy it. Lets face it people talk smack all the time. & while you might be a Ric expert & your opinion might be correct Mr. Hall doesn't know you. I'd want to see the problems first. I'll admit because there were no pictures, I was reserving judgment. The pictures I did see just didn't look that bad. I understand that for the price GC was asking the bass should blow you & do your laundry. You expect perfection. But given how few were made the price was sure to be high. Nobody complains the even though the 4004's should be easier to build they cost so much more then the 4003's. I got the impression the customer service issue might have been due to misunderstanding on everyone's part. I've seen that far too often to find funny.