neck bow/twist of my 4003

alberobello · Post by **alberobello** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:30 pm

Hi all,

I wrote about the problem i have on my '99 4003 several months ago. Relying on your valuable suggestions, I tried to solve it by myself without doing something stupid since I am not so good at these technical 'details'. I went over and tried every single thing (the ones does not include a luthier) you suggested yet couldn't solve it.

As i wrote I have a 99' rickenbacker 4003 and until now I have been adjusting the truss rods by myself to get rid of this annoying bow of the neck.

Both under E and G strings I have bows in different levels, g side is more annoying tough.

I didn't want to ruin everthing by doing something wrong, so the only thing I tried was changing the strings with lighter ones, I had rotosound strings with I guess the gauge of .110 on E, now I have d'addario cb80 that has a gauge of .095 in order to reduce the tension on the neck. Plus I waited for months to check if this problem is something seasonal, but I am afraid it is not. No matter I have done, including removing all the strings, and with rods with no tension, the bow still existed.

So now, for the last time can you advise me something more before I take my bass to a luthier? I really appreciate your comments and valuable suggestions on this. Here are some photos below. Thanks a lot!

http://i.hizliresim.com/ea4qQg.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/xY1PLE.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/x8GnvW.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/KDLXbm.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/emVlyZ.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/xE7ldB.jpg
http://i.hizliresim.com/wjEJOD.jpg

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:45 pm

If in doubt, taking it to a luthier is the best idea. I've wasted so much time in the past trying to fix things unsuccessfully that to a skilled luthier have been relatively easy fixes.

alberobello · Post by **alberobello** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:27 pm

henry5 wrote:If in doubt, taking it to a luthier is the best idea. I've wasted so much time in the past trying to fix things unsuccessfully that to a skilled luthier have been relatively easy fixes.

I guess you are right.. I've been waiting for 10 months to get inspired by something and solve this by myself.. Yet no solution and I don't want to destroy my bass.

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:05 pm

That you haven't been able to adjust out the bow in your neck tells me that one or both of your truss rods have "flipped" in their channel, rendering them useless. You'll need to remove them, straighten them (leaving a slight curve in them), and slide them back in with the curve on the bottom. During removal, the masking tape on the rods may very well tear and come off in places, so you'll need to remove it first, them re-tape them after you've straightened them. Afterward you'll be able to go back to using your preferred Rotosound strings.

antonius · Post by **antonius** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:37 pm

On the E side, does it have a bit of a hump about half way along the neck, and then a dip and a bow at the lower frets, or is that just an illusion? If that is the case then it might need more than sorting out the truss rods. My 1975 4001 neck warped so it had a hump centred at around the 9th fret and a dip and bow centred around the 4th fret, and it was only really noticeable on the E side of the neck, but it made it horrible to play. The solution was to have the fretboard levelled, re-fretted and refinished. A costly job, but it plays great now. I hope this isn't the case with your bass, but if it is, at least it can be fixed. The best thing is to get it looked at by a luthier. Good luck with it...

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:42 am

antonius wrote:On the E side, does it have a bit of a hump about half way along the neck, and then a dip and a bow at the lower frets, or is that just an illusion? If that is the case then it might need more than sorting out the truss rods. My 1975 4001 neck warped so it had a hump centred at around the 9th fret and a dip and bow centred around the 4th fret, and it was only really noticeable on the E side of the neck, but it made it horrible to play. The solution was to have the fretboard levelled, re-fretted and refinished. A costly job, but it plays great now. I hope this isn't the case with your bass, but if it is, at least it can be fixed. The best thing is to get it looked at by a luthier. Good luck with it...

Yep...

From the pictures that were supplied, no amount of truss rod tweaking will get that neck straight.

It's luthier time.

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:03 pm

I've dealt with this before. I really think the rods have rotated in their channels over time, and it's a relatively easy fix.

alberobello · Post by **alberobello** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:08 pm

antonius wrote:On the E side, does it have a bit of a hump about half way along the neck, and then a dip and a bow at the lower frets, or is that just an illusion? If that is the case then it might need more than sorting out the truss rods. My 1975 4001 neck warped so it had a hump centred at around the 9th fret and a dip and bow centred around the 4th fret, and it was only really noticeable on the E side of the neck, but it made it horrible to play. The solution was to have the fretboard levelled, re-fretted and refinished. A costly job, but it plays great now. I hope this isn't the case with your bass, but if it is, at least it can be fixed. The best thing is to get it looked at by a luthier. Good luck with it...

yes, unfortunately, half of the neck has the string higher than it is supposed to be, the other half has all the frets buzzing.

alberobello · Post by **alberobello** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:19 pm

aceonbass wrote:I've dealt with this before. I really think the rods have rotated in their channels over time, and it's a relatively easy fix.

Then I will try what you suggest first, if it is not something that includes the possibility of ruining the neck. I have never tried that until now, so if it requires high levels of technical knowledge please let me know

so i will seek for a luthier.

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:54 am

aceonbass wrote:I've dealt with this before. I really think the rods have rotated in their channels over time, and it's a relatively easy fix.

I have never seen from my own eyes the truss rod channels on the 4003 (the "new" truss rod channels) so the following relies on me assuming the basic principle of a typical truss rod are found in the RIC dual system.

I would assume the channels to be curved (convex relative to the fretboard). If I assume correctly, how can a rod rotate in its channel? My 2nd assumption here is that the rods are a snug fit in the channels so these do not move sideways.

Cheers

aceonbass · Post by **aceonbass** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:27 am

The ends of the rods aren't fixed at the body end. They rely on a star washer and tension to keep them from rotating. Over time some rods will very slowly rotate at this point till adjustment is ineffective. Sometimes the wood just compresses, requiring constant adjustment. These rods would work better if they were fixed at the body end. Like I said, I've seen it a lot.

Colonel Sanders · Post by **Colonel Sanders** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:07 am

Ok, I see what you mean!

alberobello · Post by **alberobello** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:09 am

Thanks a lot for comments. I left my bass to a luthier, he told me that it needs to be replaned and refretted. He just eliminated the possibility of rotated rods, what aceonbass suggested. I guess I will go there or call him to check it carefully in case aceonbass is right

antonius · Post by **antonius** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:30 am

I was horrified at the thought of such drastic work being done on my 1975 4001, but afterwards you couldn't even notice that my fretboard had been levelled. What looked like a big problem seemed to require the removal of only a minimal amount of material to get it back in shape. I hope it all goes smoothly for you too...

alberobello · Post by **alberobello** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:00 am

antonius wrote:I was horrified at the thought of such drastic work being done on my 1975 4001, but afterwards you couldn't even notice that my fretboard had been levelled. What looked like a big problem seemed to require the removal of only a minimal amount of material to get it back in shape. I hope it all goes smoothly for you too...

yes, thanks, I hope so!

Just out of curiosity, I want to ask you something.. How would they charge you for an operation like this in UK (assuming that you live there)? I paid 250 Turkish Liras for that in Istanbul, which makes around 110 US dollars.

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neck bow/twist of my 4003

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