360/6 concerns and Ric concerns in general.

placebo62 · Post by **placebo62** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:49 pm

Hi again,

I've read just about everything available about 360 rics, but have come across a couple of comments that play on my mind, are the following anything to worry about?

1. "...despite their reputation, they (ric) need to address the basic flaw in their guitar design...the fretboard should be flush with the guitar body

Quite interested to hear comments on this.

2. A number of people have said that some rics, 360s for example, aren't great for players with big hands/fingers. Now, I don't have massive hands or overly long fingers, but they aren't small either. Has neck size caused anyone else problems?

3. I've also read that Rics are no good for anything but playing chords, and are especially not great for dropped tunings. Now I'm not always tuned a half step down, I like to play a lot of stuff, some beatles or country music, then maybe some radiohead. Am I going to be ok with a Ric?

Anyway, I hope these made sense, as you can tell I am new to Rics and guitars in general, so please forgive me if any of these comments seem foolish.

Thanks heaps.

simon

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:13 pm

I think the one thing that I love about RIC is that they don't go the way of Fender and other BIG guitar builders. RICs have their querks but that's what make them so special. You don't like them at first but you get used to it. The whole RIC history is full of querks and such(slant frets,convertible guitars,etc.)After a while, you can play anything on your querk filled Rickenbacker. Heck, I can play Metallica on my 370_12 and it sounds damn good too. So, to sum it up, I wouldn't call them "flaws"; I would call them "charactor filled." End of rant.

IMO
Cole

squid · Post by **squid** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:50 pm

Hi, Simon. The only thing I can't answer about your post is the dropped tunings part. I use standard tunings or open tunings on my Rics. I've never played a drop D or double drop D, and I've never tuned down a standard tuning in the way you describe (although some Ric 12 players swear by this kind of adjustment). For what it's worth, I don't think the kind of alternate tuning you're talking about would adversely affect the quality of the sound or the playability of the instrument. I expect that it would have the same string-to-string balance as an ordinary tuning. And it would be a breeze to play.

As for the other concerns, check the archive for threads on playing a lead with a Rickenbacker. There are lots of them, and the general consensus is that the "rhythm only" label is flat out wrong. Rics sound great when they're asked to really push a tube amp, particularly in conjunction with a decent overdrive or fuzz pedal. Switch to the neck pick-up for a fatter, richer tone. Use the bridge pick-up to cut through. It also depends on your playing style and tonal preferences. Just how raunchy do you want to go?

As for the design flaw of the raised neck, I can't say that it's ever really bothered me. I play a lot of hollow bodied electric guitars, and I was used to having the neck meet flush with the body. When I picked up my first 360, it did initially seem odd, but that feeling faded very quickly. I certainly don't see it adversely affecting the performance of the instrument. If anything, it greatly improves access to the upper frets. If the design of the neck is a big concern for you, you should look into a 380L; not only is the neck flush with the body of the guitar (or very close to it), but the width of the fretboard is increased. It's a very comfortable guitar to play.

jsm610 · Post by **jsm610** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:57 pm

I think your radiohead stuff will sound ok.

oreca · Post by **oreca** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:08 pm

Simon, if you get High-Gain pickups you shouldn't have a problem with "not being able to play lead".
I with all three pickups on my 370 I can even get some feedback!
Lots of great tones for any type of lead.

Anyone noticed if you crank the volume on the bridge and you turn down the treble you can get a good sound to play along with some Link Wray.
I have a Vox Pathfinder 15 and when I'm using the boost it's quite a sound.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:28 am

Simon....'despite their reputation, they (ric) need to address the basic flaw'. Oh yeah, so the fact that these have been around for half a century or so means nothing. Would a flawed instrument last as long?
I don't know anyone who has had a problem playing a Ric 6 string with regard to hand size. A 12 is another matter!
I play rock & any of my Rics will easily hold it's own with my other guitarists Les Paul & SG, when it comes to soloing & anything else come to that. This is not being partisan...it's there for all to hear.
As far as dropped tuning goes, I don't use it myself, but my other guitarist does on one of my Rics & it sounds great. The only thing I would consider is that the stock Ric 10-42s would probably be a little thin & I would go to 10-46s.

I have never heard so much rubbish & mis-information about any other manufacturer than that on Rickenbacker. I just don't know where it comes from. I can only assume that it is back biting brought about by pure envy!

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:55 am

All these myths...whatever. Jeeze.

I almost feel as if I'm being trolled, but I'll bite.

One of these myths that I really don't understand is the whole 'fretboard should be flush with the guitar body' - what the hell does that mean? What guitar have you ever played like that?
I just got a new Gretsch and the fretboard actually floats over the body and there's a gap in between - like a violin. What's the problem?

The great thing about Rics is that they're NOT like all the other guitars you've ever played.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:15 am

Spencer, there are True Believers out there who have decided that old-time set-neck construction where the fretboard is not raised must apply to all guitars. These same people are waiting for that newfangled Fender to fail too.

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:45 am

Simon,
You should try a 380, 650 and a 660. All of these have a wider neck if that is your preference (it's mine). The 380's and 650's have humbuckers, great for lead. The 660's have vintage reissue toaster pickups. The toasters have that vintage sound but can still play a lead. The 650's fret board is closer to top of the body, I'm not sure of the 380, maybe an owner of one can chime in here. Rics are unique, high quality instruments that can and have covered many styles of music. Definitely worth having at least one in your arsenal.

longhouse · Post by **longhouse** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:02 am

The fact that the fingerboard is almost 20mm off the body never fails to confuse my bandmate when he tries my Rics. That space of almost an inch between the strings and the body, right where you strum or pick, tends to make Fender fingers fumble sometimes. It's something I never even thought of until I watched him try to play it -and I've had my 360V64 since 1995.

As for the rest of the concerns in the first post, they are worthless myths. I've seen some ham-fisted, sausage finger folks absolutely get off on mandolin -AND THEY HAVE TINY (REALLY TINY) NECKS AND TIGHT FINGER SPACING. Rics are fine guitars for all manner of playing and virtually all styles. I use mine for lead, rhythm, soundscapes, E-bow, vintage sounds, and riffs. I prefer toaster pickups, but the HiGains and HB1s are versatile ('specially the HB1s) and cover a wide spectrum of sounds. A clean amp with plenty of headroom will help you realise the tonal depth of a Rickenbacker -they have bottom end for days!

De-tune your Ric if you wish, it will give you a shade more twang or allow you to do those lazy dropped D chords. I prefer concert pitch personally.

Noel

larry_mondello · Post by **larry_mondello** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:32 am

Dropped tunings or alternative tuning IS a problem on any brand of guitar where the tailpiece moves around .
As the "R" is NOT hinged and has the ability to move side to side ...this is quite noticable when restringing .... this too will happen when playing around with tunings .
In the 1970's and 1980's Joni Mitchell used an Ibanez George Benson with a trapeze tailpiece ...but that tail[piece does NOT move side to side . I have had two of these guitars ... She also had two , and she changed them in a live situation just to maintain the tuning 'thing' . Plus given the fact that everything she does is in a different tuning . I tend to look to her example for ideas and gear .
An amazing person .

The fretboard above the face of the guitar has NOTHING to do with anything .

The thin necks ....yes they are different from every one else .
Fender is 1 & 5/8" at the nut ...but 2 & 1/4" at the last fret
Gibson necks are generally 1 &11/16" at the nut (yeah I know that there are some SG and ES series guitars with 1&5/8" widths ) and 2 & 1/4" at the last fret .

Rick is narrower at the body than anyone else .
They tend to run under 2&1/8" ....that depends on what era they were made in .
THIS narrow end of neck is ,to my thinking , the reason for this thinking .
If the bridge was as wide as a Gibson then this would never be discussed .
If you have a collection of brands of guitars ... then this width can be a problem .

I am having a custom neck made for my Rick as we speak .... I can't wait .

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:36 am

Take away that clearance and there's no room for top mounted pickups, the original bridge assembly, and the string break angle flattens using the traditional tailpieces. That means that the guitar simply won't sound the way it does, just as the 650 series doesn't sound anything like the 300 series. The sound is subjective- if you like it then this is really the only way to get it, and if you don't, there's plenty of guitars to choose from, including some RICs, that sound different due to their design in this area.

Is it a design flaw that Mercedes does things differently than Chevy?

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:45 am

Right on John.

It's ALL about the sound.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:28 am

I bet every manufacturer would like to build a guitar as 'flawed' as a Rickenbacker! After all these years, an open E on a Ric 300 series gtr genuinely still sends a shiver down my spine. Like I said earlier, a guitar doesn't last for 50 years or so if it isn't up to spec.

wormdiet · Post by **wormdiet** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:08 am

I just started playing fingerstyle in dropped tunings on my 330. I's fine. Neck could be a *tad* wider for this, but my technqiue can be MUCH better too. No problems playing in dropped D and other weird tunings.

Dropped D droning string and a long-period, shallow phaser will also get a cool bagpipe sound going, for those of you into weird textures.