360/12 Tech help needed asap

[idealassets]

I will be playing my Ric 360/12 in a large cathedral with 60 foot high ceiling and an audience of 800 on floor level and in a 20 ft high balcony. Normally every electric instrument is run from the effects boards into the house PA control board. After rehearsal the sound tech agreed to have me bring a guitar amp to serve as a monitor on the stage for the performance. All I have to use is a 40 watt Fender Acoustasonic amp. A problem is that this cathedral has never had a Ric 12 string before in the lineup, so they are surprised by the sound and PA results as being "thin" sounding.

1. Using my Fender Acous. amp they plan to arrange it like a sound monitor front & center of main stage, angled up and back to the band (and in front of my guitar). The purpose is to get the feed to the PA running through my amp. The sound of my 360/12 is "thin" into the house PA, using only my janglebox as "sound boost". (our only sound check will be 15 minutes before the crowd arrives):

Is this going to work or be cumbersome to do?

2. Considering the average hall that I play in is churches with 150 - 800 people, what electric guitar amp would be ideal for me to buy for a Ric 360/12? (I am attempting to stay as light & portable as possible, for my entry level amp)

I'm asking because many guitar shops might not really know, since they sell such a wide variety of gear.

Thank you!
Craig

[iiipopes]

Are you running both pickups, or just the bridge pickup? When I played mine several years ago in a contemporary service in a large worship space that was effectively a gymnasium, complete with metal ceiling and maple hardwood basketball court and large regular glass windows, it also sounded thin until I cranked the neck pickup along with the bridge pickup. I also used a Dunlop grey nylon .73mm medium soft pick instead of a Fender 351 medium to take the edge off the articulation, and had the sound man crank the upper bass (@ 250-500 Hz) on the board. Also, I used a POD 2.0 on its "Blackface setting" instead of an amp, since it was modelled on a real blackface Fender Deluxe, which has a signature low-mid resonance with its 12-inch speaker, and used its 1/4 inch out to a direct box and then to the board, with the side headphone jack with an adaptor to a small set of headphones as my monitor - one in to hear the guitar, one out to hear the rest of the mix through the monitors. You probably won't need the treble boost of the janglebox. Normal will probably be fine - if you're talking about the "standard" janglebox. Let the sound man add treble to the desired amount of shimmer on top of the jangle.

I would suggest that you run the guitar to the compressor, then the output of the compressor to one of the 1/4 inch "in" jacks of a direct box, run the XLR out the back of the direct box to the house system, and run a cord out the other 1/4 inch, or "side" jack of the direct box to your amp for your personal monitor, which you can then run as soft as possible so there is no cross-talk to the vocal microphones. Back off your compressor settings to just a tad of compression necessary to keep everything as open as possible and not over-comped for the board. Running the instrument to the DI box first, then two outs, XLR to the board and 1/4 to my personal monitor amp, is also how my custom P/J bass was hooked up for the Welk TV show I played years ago. This is instead of mik'ing the amplifier.

Maple has a natural dip in its response in exactly the same band of frequencies that your sound man calls "thin," and it is up to him to bring it back after you have made sure your guitar is set up well and crank some neck pickup into the output.

For such an elaborate house system, the POD 2.0 with its headphone jack instead of an amplifier is much better than any amplifier I ever used in a live setting, whether it be worship space, a large theater, a large metal barn-style nightclub, or anything else: clean tone, complete control, no cross-talk, one small satchel with the POD and cables along with the guitar case instead of the weight of an amplifier. Also - the POD 2.0 has built in digital tuner, the best I have ever used for accuracy, and effects, including compression, which its compressor is the best "pedal" compressor I have ever used. I used to keep the tuner permanently "on" for the theater shows, so I could tweak on the fly when the heat of the lights coming up and going down would affect the tuning. I also suggest a volume pedal somewhere in the chain, downstream, because the POD 2.0 doesn't mute the output when the tuner is engaged, unless you have a separate inline tuner that does, or a Snark on your headstock so you can zero the guitar volume to tune.

[idealassets]

Scott,
Thank you immensely for your response. I'll look into what you describe. Most of my past playing has always been as the "the rhythm man", and my Guild acoustic guitars were well liked for that sound. I usually did quite well using an acoustic 12 string for any Byrds or Beatles lead parts.

With the band liking the Ric, I am now the lead player with my own rhythm backup. No doubt I will now be adding more gear, such as your suggested volume pedal. I'm liking it all more all the time.

-Craig

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

I will second the idea of a Line 6 POD, which is way more useful then just a volume pedal... It emulates different amps and speaker combinations (amp modeling) and it also has a pile of built in effects, distortion, compression, tremelo etc.

I use it in two ways - at home to play electric guitar with the head phones on so as not to annoy the neighbors, and in a live setting as a pre-amp to then go into my amplifier (a Rickenbacker TR25 solid state amp from the early 1980s in my case) - leaving the amp set clean and all the sounds for various songs come from the POD.

They also make a live version - with foot pedals that can be controlled while playing. (I don't own one of those though I see how it could be handy). A useful thing that once you get used to using it, you will wonder how you ever played electric guitar without one. I scored one used off craigslist for $80 about three years back.

The only criticism I have heard about them is that they tend to make a lot of electrics sound the same, whether it is an el-cheapo budget guitar or a high end instrument. A RIC 12 is so distinctive a sound I don't think that will be much of a problem.

They also make a version for bass players as well.

[idealassets]

My Janglebox model is the Byrds Janglebox 2. It seems to function as a pre-amp, after the drummer said "do you have a pre-amp?"

-Craig

[larsongs]

The Pod is a good idea for flexibility & portability.

But, a Vox AC15 with a Celestion Alnico Blue Speaker w/Janglebox is, IMO, the ideal Setup for most applications.

L

[idealassets]

The Janglebox worked just fine. The "boost" knob added a lot of volume. Also I used my Fender Acoustasonic amp hooked into the PA. That seemed to get the soundman to finally make everything work. The Ric 360/12 sounded fine, even though we played no "12 string songs". The end result is that I will soon have delivery of a new 6 string Duesenberg guitar to use most of the time. Eventually I might try to fit a Ric 360 (6 string) into my guitars also.

Thank you,
Craig