It's really hard to like Rickenbackers...

[comeontrain]

...when your new band doesn't which is why I've come here - for a sympathetic ear.

I recently auditioned for a band, only a covers band but a pretty good one. They play old Northern Soul, Motown, Stax, stuff I really like, think 'The Commitments' but 90% less Irish! I took my dream bass a '97 4001v63, I'm not overstating that either. I L-O-V-E this thing.

Anyway, in midst of a now just a bit too thuddy bass but on the strength of old strings at the time plus an hour before leaving home having fought the bloody mute so it didn't totally kill the tone of the G string, and I like to think being able to play a bit I got offered the gig! Great right? However at the pub afterwards toasting me lol the drummer and one of the singers were like 'you've got a Fender as well right?', 'A P Bass is the sound we need, so and so the last guy played a P'. I was a bit taken aback, I've never been in a situation where my choice of instrument was being dictated to me! But these guys are kinda semi pro, know what they're doing and do it well, so I just ran with it.

I'll be using the P then. Thing is, I don't like my P, I don't like its ubiquitous shape, I don't like its huge gaps between the strings, I don't like the neck being what feels like twice as large at the body as it is at the nut, I don't like the feel of any of it, I don't like its scratchy pots, it's wobbly tuners or even the colour! Worse still, I don't feel confident playing it. It's a beater, a spare. I've been a Rick guy since I was 16, I got my first job just to buy one. And I'm certainly not buying an American made Precision that may or may not rectify half of what I don't like about it. But, even I have to submit it does have 'that' sound, that I can't quite hit with my 4001 this is where on talkbass they'd tell me to quit whining and play the tool for the job. But you're better than that here right besides, I'm not a pro, I want to play what I'm most comfortable with!

A few rehearsals and a gig in I just want to play a Rick, any Rick, not even my V63 anymore (she's sticking to zingy rounds to keep my sanity anyway). Literally ANY Rick. Yep, I'm finally reaching the question in my post. Wake up at the back there! I did a bit of looking around and remembered the 4004, it's not exactly conclusive as I've had to go on YouTube videos but you can get a Babbitt tone out of that with a bit of sponge right?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ASzXT0_zHHg[/youtube]
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ASzXT0_zHHg

Problem is, can't find one of those. They come up now and again on eBay but always with gold hardware, a bit flamboyant for my tastes. Asked in a local shop about them getting one in to try and possibly ordering a Laredo, and was basically told they'd rather not (yeah seriously), but if 'I insisted' (again, seriously) it will be a two year wait and I can only order it in black. For that money I'll at least see the wood thanks! Anyway I could get struck by lightning tomorrow or more happily, have two children and a third on the way by the time it arrives. That's just too long to wait. So it's possibly endless eBay searches for that...

Talking of eBay, I found a 3001...after a bit more digging around its apparently 'a P bass on steroids', not remotely keen on its looks, seriously challenging there but it'll at least have the neck type I get on with a sound like closer to a P. I put in a low offer, the seller accepts it...two days later after a deafening silence I have to ask them to relinquish the info that they got a better offer as a trade. It was a better offer to be fair, but you know I was brought up in the my word is my bond school so people behaving in such a way is always a bit disappointing, more so when you have to drag it out of them. Most importantly it's put me back to square one.

My third option, second really as I think the 3001 on reflection was just desperation. Lucky escape maybe? Yes the third option might almost be offensive on this site...but I'm running out of ideas here...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sPuVehvDJNs[/youtube]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sPuVehvDJNs

It's ticking my boxes, it's got that I'll admit delicious P sound but with the ergonomics of a Rick, and if it sounds that close to a P like that, stuffing a sock (or suchlike, I'm not battling with that mute again!) at the bridge is going to get me the tone I'm looking for.

But it's drastic, broken Ricks don't come up often and by the looks of it they go for silly money because people who have the know how can make them playable Ricks again (nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't help me!!)...butchering a new instrument just seems wrong...and expensive!

So -
1 - Search the planet for a Laredo? Made harder by the fact I don't want one of those older baseball bat neck ones I've read about, my old midnight blue 4003 was like that, part of the reason the v63 is the dream
2 - find another 3001...though I'm soooo not keen on this it's worth dropping entirely.
3 - play in spacesuit and forever have people asking 'why did you do that to a Rickenbacker?'
4 - you talk too much please go and join a Fender P appreciation forum

Any help or ideas would be appreciated but fyi everything is just that bit costlier and harder to find as I'm in the UK! But the effort is worth it because, I like the band they're great people, I'm otherwise enjoying the whole experience and can see myself wanting to be with them for a while.

Thanks

Danny

Ps. I'm really sorry for the length of this post, it's got a bit out of hand
Pps. Should probably add the v63 I've been banging on about!

[sloop_john_b]

Your v63 is quite lovely, but it's not the right tool for the job in many ways. I know it's not the answer you want to hear but it's the truth.

The more you play the Precision, the more comfy you'll get with it. There is a reason they're the most ubiquitous bass guitar on the planet! They are wonderful instruments. Though I resisted mightily, I was a Rick guy for many years but truly found "home" on a Precision. Perhaps you simply haven't got the right one.

[edski]

TL;DR...

But, I've never had an issue getting a deep sound with my 4001. It out P basses a P bass. Although I do love the way a P bass "thwacks" on the E string (when I slam my thumb into it). But that sound tends to anger some band members.

With old strings, the zing of a Rick should be attenuated. I think the band mates have a prejudice and aren't really listening, they are looking. Years ago in a band with a real idiot as the singer I switched to using my fretless J for a while. it was plain white, with a white pickguard, pretty much the definition of a boring looking bass. Otherwise I was using my fireglo Laredo. When I decided to bring the 4004 to rehearsal, the singer said "I'm so glad you're using this bass again! It looks so much better than the other one". You'll have that garbage from some people...

If the other guys want more lows, roll off the tones, boost the bass on the amp. If the make you use the P, crank the treble on the amp and leave the tone pot wide open, go for the John Wetton sound (I swore he used a Rick for many years, before the YouTube era).

Another thing - I've been jamming with some guys for a couple months and rotating in my 4 basses - the 75 4001, the Laredo, a cheap Ibanez, and a custom fretless (which is pretty much a J bass sound). You know what? When the drums are going it is tough to tell much of a difference in tone. Yeah, the 4001 has a special clank, and I love playing fretless. But anyone of them do the job. It has more to do with the notes you play and they way you play those notes.

Just my $0.02, YMMV, yadda yadda. I say play the bass you want. Stressing over the "sound" in a cover band ain't worth it.

Hell, I saw a video the other day of Yes playing "South Side of the Sky" and Squire was playing a P bass. It sounded good (except the band kinda dragged the tune, but that wasn't the basses fault! )

Cheers - best of luck!

[comeontrain]

Your v63 is quite lovely, but it's not the right tool for the job in many ways. I know it's not the answer you want to hear but it's the truth.

The more you play the Precision, the more comfy you'll get with it. There is a reason they're the most ubiquitous bass guitar on the planet! They are wonderful instruments. Though I resisted mightily, I was a Rick guy for many years but truly found "home" on a Precision. Perhaps you simply haven't got the right one.

Noooo, you're not meant to be here! You're meant to say this is a very real problem that can only be sorted in one of the faultless ways I've mentioned

My P definitely isn't the right one that's for sure, I've had it for 5 years! I completely agree about their being wonderful instruments though- it's the sound on most of the records we all love for a reason. They sound brilliant. But I have tried others, unlike most brands, Fenders are really easy to get here no matter what the model but they all share the features I dont like. I'll keep looking though, you could be right...I can think of worse ways to spend spare afternoons than surrounded by basses!

TL;DR...

But, I've never had an issue getting a deep sound with my 4001. It out P basses a P bass. Although I do love the way a P bass "thwacks" on the E string (when I slam my thumb into it). But that sound tends to anger some band members.

With old strings, the zing of a Rick should be attenuated. I think the band mates have a prejudice and aren't really listening, they are looking. Years ago in a band with a real idiot as the singer I switched to using my fretless J for a while. it was plain white, with a white pickguard, pretty much the definition of a boring looking bass. Otherwise I was using my fireglo Laredo. When I decided to bring the 4004 to rehearsal, the singer said "I'm so glad you're using this bass again! It looks so much better than the other one". You'll have that garbage from some people...

If the other guys want more lows, roll off the tones, boost the bass on the amp. If the make you use the P, crank the treble on the amp and leave the tone pot wide open, go for the John Wetton sound (I swore he used a Rick for many years, before the YouTube era

LOL I'm rather ashamed to say I tried the upping the treble amongst other things (rotosounds anyone ) in an effort to get my way already - I'm glad you suggested it too though!

Annoyingly they all LOVE the look of the Rick, nothing but positives on that front...it's just the two leading members so to speak who know what they want and it's a P with flats, I get it I really do...but my bass wasn't that far off, it's not like I was the only person to audition! A guy who took a P didn't get it

[jps]

Unfortunately, sometimes the herd mentality comes out, for better or worse. Fortunately for me, I have yet to play in a band in almost 45 years of being a bassist in which a particular instrument was dictated to me to use. Would you tell another musician what brand and model of instrument he must play to "fit in"? I know that happens and there are situations where that must be, mostly for the image more so than the tone as I feel almost any good instrument can produce a good tone, it really comes down to the player IMO (assuming a talented player who knows how to get a good sound in the first place).

I used to have a really great sounding '98 4001V63 that sounded just perfect for anything i played. I have used D'Addario Chromes and TI Jazz Rounds on it, both to good effect and tone.

Here is one example (with the Jazz Rounds at the time).

[Keef]

There is a reason people want P basses in bands/gigs/recordings. They have a sound that fits a certain way in the mix which make people comfortable. We all approach our profession (or hobby) in different ways, and I've come to embrace the motto of "the right tool for the job". When I do a recording session I tend to bring a few instruments I think will fit the music best, yet also allow for some tonal differences. I also find different basses make me play differently. I approach gigs in a similar way, but I don't usually bring many different choices just because of the schlepping issue.
I see it as, aside from playing the best I can on a gig, part of my job is to make the people who have hired me comfortable. To me that means not coming in with a attitude of "this is what I play, and if you don't like it that's tuff!" If they hear a certain sound, that's ok by me. Sometimes its looks over sound (especially with acoustic bass) and that can be tedious, but hey... they are the ones paying me. This approach is also quite helpful in rationalizing having a collection of basses
Of any of my basses, Rickenbackers are the ones that usually have a stigma... Chris Squire references jokingly come up, but all I need to do is remind them Paul McCartney played one as well!
Anyway, I'm sure I haven't helped but I just thought I would offer my 2 cents worth. Best of luck with the gig.

[Captain Bob]

Keef offers excellent advice. To reiterate, if you desire the position, you most likely need to comply with their wants. Different tools for different applications. Even if you manage the sound, then there's the psychology of the band. Because it's not a P, it can never sound like a P. It's a battle you most likely won't win.

A P-Bass owns the midrange. It's easy to dial one in, and it cuts through a mix.

The Rick delivers lows and upper mids, but suffers in the low mid arena - 120 to 600Hz. As mentioned, Thomastik Infeld JF344 flats - wipe them down clean with naphtha (lighter fluid) prior to installation. A piece of foam under the strings up against the tailpiece.

Don't feel overly offended. One of my favorite bass stories from the 70's (1975) is the bassist for Artful Dodger showing up for their first session, pulling his brand new 4001 from the case, and producer Jack Douglas shouting 'you are not recording with that!' The road Mgr. was sent shopping to find him a P Bass.

Its true here in Nashville,too. The Rickenbacker is deemed too idiosyncratic for studio work. You'd best have a P-bass....an early 60's model. Engineers can dial them in quickly (thats the key) and they, and the artists, are comfortable with them. That's the way it is.

As a substitute for a Fender P, you may wish to try a Lakland, perhaps a Duck Dunn model (jazz neck with blocks).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLWUjl6_F0s

Good luck, and listen to your fellow players to be successful.

[squirebass]

I'd say from experience that your band-mates want the P because of the way it LOOKS, not really because of the way it SOUNDS. They want a certain on-stage LOOK, and with a Motown flavored act, that's the bidness for them.... No matter how good your Rick sounds, you can't get it to LOOK enough like a P-bass to pass their test. I've been there, but not in many years...
I don't know what to advise you to do, but I can say that good bass players are VERY hard to find, so I'd stick to my guns and play what I wanted. That's what I've done since about the mid-'80s and I've never regretted it....

[Lewis90]

I'd say from experience that your band-mates want the P because of the way it LOOKS, not really because of the way it SOUNDS. They want a certain on-stage LOOK

Think this sums it up nicely. If they really want a different sound I would rather try eq-ing or some different strings than buying a bass.
Don't feel bad about playing the bass you love: you love it for a reason!

[Kopfjaeger]

Wow, that sucks. So what about the tone from your v63 did they not care for?? Too thuddy?? You posted that your strings were kinda old so I'm thinking you were not very zingy. See that's what I love most about my Rickenbacker's they get the upper mid zing thing very nicely, especially with new rounds.

I played fender P basses exclusively when I was younger. I was always chasing the Rickenbacker tone with the P bass, but I just did not know it. When I played my first 4001, it was like EUREKA!! I found it and I didn't even have to use an effect or a ton of EQ!! The only tone my current bandmates did not like was my 4004, but I was OK with that since I was not thrilled either.

Sounds like you have a dilemma. These guys are not fond of your Rickenbacker but you are. If it is the instrument they do not care for, no tweaking of your tone is going to fix that. If it's the tone then there are plenty of things you can do to help your bass conform but will you be happy with your tone?? These may be the greatest musicians in the world but there will come a time when you will draw a line in the sand if you are forced to play something you are not happy with. Be true to yourself!!

Sepp

[coolingitdown]

If they love the look of the Rick and dislike the sound, I would say it's up to you to get the tone they seek out of the Rick. No, it won't sound EXACTLY like a P-bass, but I'm willing to bet you can get close enough with some EQ work and the right strings. Dial up the low-mids and mids, back off the upper mids a bit, maybe. Sit down with both basses and A/B them while changing settings on your Rick and amp. Do some research on strings and see if you can find strings that really push the mids. I have found in the past that a brighter set of flatwounds (new Fender flats, for example) can deliver a better fundamental while limiting a Rick's zingy upper-mids.

Above all, I love my Ricks for their playability. That's why, in your situation, I would do whatever I had to in order to get close to the tone they want on a Rick. Stay true to yourself.

[wints]

I'm with JB on this one. You can dress it up six ways to Sunday but the bottom line is if your playing Stax/Motown etc, a Ric is never going to cut it from a sonic or visual perspective. Period.

I was never a fan of P basses in my earlier years, because of the bigger necks and spacing, and having had a RM1999 as my first real bass. Over the years I've had a few and some have worked and some haven't. Like JB says, you just haven't found the right one yet...

[rickenbastard]

Neck pickup.
Play with your fingers over the fingerboard. Instant early 70's earthy p-bass tone.

[jps]

2030

[cassius987]

But, I've never had an issue getting a deep sound with my 4001. It out P basses a P bass.

+1 Every so often I re-think the same thought, "Who are all these dopes who thinks Rics have less low end than Fenders...? If anything they have the opposite problem!" I play in a gospel band right now, and they certainly aren't complaining that the sound coming from my 4001FL isn't bassy enough.

But if you can't coax the sound you need out of the Ric and you get it with the P, you should play the P. The Fender sound can be a great sound in the right hands. I understand not getting on with something else than a Ric when you are so used to them, though. I recently tried a Music Man and couldn't deal with the ergonomics at all. I know that's counter to what everyone on the internet says, but it's what I was suprised to experience. A bit tragic because I really liked the sound.

To be honest, as far as trying a different Ric that would somehow make the right sound... you V63 is totally capable of rich, old school thump. Something in your strings/rig/playing style is just not making it happen. (I'd stay away from the foam mute... sooner go with a sponge under the strings if you want something like that.)