What bobbins were on 80's real horseshoe pups?

bottom4 · Post by **bottom4** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:35 am

The truss rods in my 85 are identical to Ron's...

jps · Post by **jps** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:56 am

Cool! It is getting vintager by the moment!

chefothefuture · Post by **chefothefuture** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:44 am

libratune wrote:For what its worth, I have a December 1984 4001V63 and it has non-magnetic shoes and slug pickup pole pieces. Also two truss rods, as expected.

V63001.JPG
V63002.JPG

Ron-
It might be a pain, but it would be interesting to see the truss rods with the nuts and thrust block removed.
This would reveal if the rods are hairpin, or if there are new style with an old block instead of a metal plate.

I recall the V63 that I purchased in Jan of '85 (with magnetic horsie) had new rods.
But my memory could be incorrect.
Richard Smith did write in 1987 that the V63 was "structurally" improved. Not sure if that meant new rods or not.

Lost Coyotes · Post by **Lost Coyotes** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:48 am

Kopfjaeger wrote:John,

if I land the one for sale, I'll report back that the resistance the neck pup and the treble bobbin are.
Sepp

I got this...
The toaster reads 7.6 and the HS reads 10.3.

A shot of my HS, also:

Kopfjaeger · Post by **Kopfjaeger** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:39 am

Bingo, here is the money shot!! It looks like RIC used the old style 4001 Truss rod block on the new 4003 truss rods for the head stock adjustable instruments. The large round holes for the body side truss rod nuts buts that question to rest. Thanks Mike for posting this foto!

Sepp

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:20 pm

OK, wait. When was the bass in Mike's photo made? That's clearly the "new" style rods (acorn nuts at the body end). Does it have the old-style thrust plate as well?

libratune · Post by **libratune** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:32 pm

bassduke49 wrote:OK, wait. When was the bass in Mike's photo made? That's clearly the "new" style rods (acorn nuts at the body end). Does it have the old-style thrust plate as well?

In this thread Mike says his 4001V63 was made in November 1984: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=412473

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:42 pm

Ok, so Mike's Nov 84 V63 has new-style rods with old-style thrust plate. Looks like the new-style rods ggrraaaaaddduuaally replaced the hairpin types, but starting in late '84. Interesting!

Lost Coyotes · Post by **Lost Coyotes** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:11 pm

Paul,
You are the guy that I (and a lot of us) regard as the leading expert on this kind of stuff, and I just want to say; it makes me proud to have, purely by accident and with absolutely no deliberation or intent, nor anything to personally gain, provided you with some info that catches your attention!!

This picture of my Nov. '84 v63 rod ends under the TRC shows a spacer/ block/ nut support which must have been kind of an afterthought, wouldn't you say?

PS: I intend to buy your book, as soon as I can...

jps · Post by **jps** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:41 pm

Lost Coyotes wrote:PS: I intend to buy your book, as soon as I can...

Why not swap the bass for the book? The info contained in Paul's book must be worth at least that, eh?

Oh, that's right, Paul's not in buying mode.........................

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:34 pm

Thanks, Mike! Yes, that looks like a "make do" spacer. Maybe they hadn't yet settled on a shape for the spacer needed. That's one thing to keep in mind: The only absolute about Rickenbackers is that there are no absolutes.

libratune · Post by **libratune** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:32 am

For the files, here's a shot of the body end of the truss rod "acorn" nuts on my V63, same as Mike's.

The pickups read: bridge 9.51K ohms, neck 8.50K ohms.

bottom4 · Post by **bottom4** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:13 am

I don't believe mine is like that but I can not confirm as my bass is approximately 4K miles away

bassduke49 · Post by **bassduke49** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:54 am

In addition to being the "more vintage" vintage model, I wonder if John Hall and the factory group didn't use the V63 as a test bed for the new rod system. These examples seem to predate the typical "new rod" 4003. Interestinger and interestinger.

libratune · Post by **libratune** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:09 pm

While looking for something else entirely, I came across this post by Ted Staberow in 2009 which I think is relevant here as respects the truss rod issue under discussion.

I've included his entire post as a refresher in the history of model 4003 in a nutshell:

Re: Model of the Week 9.5: The BIG one -- the 4003

by Ted Staberow (rickfan60) » 07 Jan 2009 11:01 pm

You do have a lovely collection Paul. What nice colors too.

There are several major groupings in the 4003 family. The first ones had the old style rods but were adjusted at the body, as Paul said. The necks were made on rectangular blanks that some times have 3 part laminations like the 70's 4001s but instead of shedua center lams they have maple ones. They also share the D shaped neck, the smaller headstock of the 70's 4001 and the 70's 7.25" fingerboard radius. After a while the neck blanks were reduced just two pieces. The electronics were pretty much the same as the 4001.

The next group started about August of '84 when the new style truss rod system was introduced. These also have split guards and body end adjusters but the neck blanks are one piece and tapered . That is, they are wider at the end button than they are at the headstock. The headstock increased in size around this time and gained wider wings (ears?) similar to the 60's basses. The tailpiece gained two extra screws to prevent "lift" and the pickups got a little hotter and the fingerboard was flattened out to a 10" radius.

The next group started in about '86 when the truss adjusters were moved back to the headstock (where they belong ). The 4003 platform took on some alternate forms with the introduction of the 4003S/5, the 4003S/8, and the V63. Several interesting limited edition 4003s appeared that include the Shadow, the SPC Black Star, the Tuxedo, and the Redneck. The .00047 cap was removed from the circuit around this time giving the 4003 a much deeper voice.

The next major group starts sometime in the early 90's when the bodies were first cut by CNC. At that time the upper horn took on a more slender and elegant appearance. The pickups got another boost in power and the molded plastic bobbin replaced the resin board / drive screw assemblies of the previous 2 decades.

The 21st century 4003s gained a little more pickup punch but lost the 4003S/5 and 4003S/8 options. Two different neck profiles and headstock shapes appeared. Walnut head wings (ears?) were added at around 2006. The pull pot was added to allow the .00047 cap to be cut into the tone circuit and the pickups gained adjustable pole pieces. My favorite change is the addition of the full width inlays. There was also the limited edition 4003 DCM made for the 75th Anniversary.

Did I leave anything out?

Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

What bobbins were on 80's real horseshoe pups?

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