Tuning Issues with my 420 MG

[aoresteen]

I'm playing my 1971 MG 420 again and there are a couple of tuning issues with. First two of the Klusons are slipping a lot and the guitar goes out of tune. I tune up but by the end of a song they are flat again.



Any recommendations for a replacement set that are tight and look like the ones I have? Before I replace them I will have my tech put a bone nut on it to see if that might help.

The next issue is the intonation. I'm using light flat wounds and I tune it it to Open E (E B E G# B E):

1 E 0.010 Plain
2 B 0.013 Plain
3 G# 0.017 Plain
4 E 0.022 Flatwound Changed to .022 from .026 for open E tuning
5 B 0.032 Flatwound Changed to .032 from .036 for open E tuning
6 E 0.046 Flatwound

The bridge will not intonate the G# (3rd) string. The high E and the low E strings are intonated correctly but the G# (3rd) is sharp at the 12th fret and I can hear it as it's the only string with the 3rd in an open chord.

My guess is the bridge is compensated for a wound 3rd string which I will not use.

Has anyone used the Winfield Nashville replacement bridge for the 400 series Rickenbackers?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nashville-tune- ... 1e9b7be81e

I was wondering how well it clears the pickguard bridge cutout. I would have my serial number engraved on the string plate.

Thanks!

[iiipopes]

Here are the best Kluson-style drop-in fit replacements available:
http://www.toneproskluson.com/portfolio ... gm-series/

I keep this link handy in case any of my tuners on my 320 or 360-12 let go. I have the retrofit version (to replace the clunky factory Grovers) on my Gibson J-45, and they are indeed absolutely stable.

Before you go wholesale changing the bridge, I recommend you try a set of the Thomastik-Infeld flats, or a set of GHS Brite-Flats, or even the Pyramid flats to make sure you don't want a wound G-string. You can get them in 10's or 11's, as your personal preference. I changed from a plain G to a wound G over forty years ago and never looked back. Gone is the inconsistent response, depending on how new or old the string is, sharp first position chords that will never tune, and constant fiddling with the bridge intonation.

Yes, the guitar was designed for a 12's flatwound set. And that is what sounds best on it. But I agree they can be a little heavy. But if you go there, you can add to the above list the DR flats.

[aoresteen]

Thanks Scott. I'll get a set of the Kluson Tonepros.

I am using GHS Brit-Flats on my 420 but I buy them in individual strings to get the gauges I use.

I use a wound 3rd on my Epi Dot (.012s) & two Squier solid body Jazz guitars (.011s)



.011s on this one with a wound 3rd:



The kind of stuff I play in Open E a plain 3rd works best for me.

[aoresteen]

I ordered a set of the Tonepros tuners and the Nashville bridge for the 420. Once I'm sure the bridge will fit I'll have Pick Guardian make a new pick guard for it.

[aoresteen]

The Tonepros came in and I started to install them. While the Tone pros have the same footprint, the screw holes are smaller and the original slotted screws will NOT fit in the new Kluson Tonepros. Also, the Phillips head screws included are smaller than the original slot head screws that came with the 420. The options I had were to dowel all the screw holes and use the replacement Phillips head screws or to drill out the screw holes in the Tonepros and use the original slotted head screws. I decided to drill out the Tonepros so I could use the original screws..

I measured the holes in the original Klusons and discovered that they are not a standard size hole. 3/32" is too small and 7/64" is too big. Humm? Then I remembered my machine shop class where we used numbered drill bits. When I bought my drill press I invested in a complete set of dill bits - regular & numbered & lettered. Looking at a chart I saw that a # 36 drill bit should work (0.1065").

http://www.csgnetwork.com/drillsizeconvert.html

I checked the #36 bit and it did fit so I used it to drill out the screw holes in the new Kluson Tonepros. Here you can see the New Kluson on the left and the original Kluson on the right:



Here are all of the Klusons Tonepros installed:



I used the original ferrule guides rather than install the new ones that came with the Kluson Tonepros.

Scott, great tip on the the Kluson Tonepros! Thanks!

I am still waiting on the Nashville bridge.

Here's a shot of what the 420 routing looks like.



Does anyone have a picture of a Rick 450/460 routing that I could compare it to? Thanks!

I also replaced the strap buttons with a new Rickenbacker set ($10 each!) that work with Schaller strap locks. All my guitars have Schaller strap locks. I did the same to my 1989 Rick 620/12 that came with vintage style strap locks.



Of course I save all the original parts!

[aceonbass]

The Nashville bridge has no greater range of intonation than the stocker. One of the biggest problems with just about all 70's Ricks was that the bridges were in the WRONG place, and this includes the basses.

[aoresteen]

The Nashville bridge has no greater range ofintonstion than the stocker. One of the biggest problems with just about all 70's Ricks was that the bridges were in the WRONG place, and this includes the basses.

Not true. The stock bridge is an aluminum "compensated" bridge much like the style you would find on an arch top jazz guitar. The stock bridge assumes a wound 3rd string and an E that is about .012 in size. Changing the strings to an unwound 3rd and using lighter strings changes the intonation of the guitar. There is no way to individually intonate each string with the stock bridge. If you place the bridge so that the unwound 3rd intonates correctly, the others will be off. Take a look at the following pictures of the 420 standard bridge:



Top view:



You can see that the 3rd string is place forward of the center line but with an unwound string it needs to be behind the center line. The Nashville bridge allows you to adjust the intonation of each string individually.

[aceonbass]

Yes, you're right in the case of this bridge. I was referring to the stock six saddle bridge.

[aoresteen]

I installed the new Nashville bridge today. I hand an issue with placement as the original string plate was not installed parallel to the nut. The high E string side was just a bit further away from the nut than the low E sting side. It doesn't mater when using the original bridge (the original bridge is not connected to the string holder plate) but with the new bridge it is an issue as they are one unit. I drilled out the two outside screw holes and doweled them. I then aligned the string plate and re-drilled the screw holes:



I then used a sharp chisel to cut the dowels smooth. Here's the new bridge in place checking alignment before screwing it down:



Next up was to check clearances with the pick guard on. I remounted the pick guard with the Nashville bridge in place:



The high E side of the Nashville bridge is righ up against the pick guard.

The pick guard has a crack in it by the toggle switch and needs replacing. I decided to have two replacements made. The first one will be an exact copy of the original. The second one will not have a toggle switch and the area around the Nashville bridge will be modified a bit to let the bridge fit better. I sent the original pick guard to Pickguardian and Tony will make the new ones. He does great work!

http://www.pickguardian.com/

Once I get the new pick guards it will be just a matter of wiring it up and a set-up and this 420 will be rocking again.