4001S 64

[jerzy]

Hello everybody,
Can you tell me what this bass is worth ?
The neck is straight, frets are ok. The horseshoe is a killer. The toaster doesn't work anymore. Some wear and tear on the body and the neck. Some little bit on the headstock broken (see picture). Chrome parts used. Serial Nr. DC298.
Please help me out on this one. Thanks.

[lordblackmore]

Is this a C64 or a V63? I'm not an expert but I though that the C64s have the cresting wave on the headstock on the bottom.

-T

[Lefty4003S8]

That is NOT a c64 or V63. The serial # indicates that it's an 4001s or an RM19999.

[Kopfjaeger]

Whoa, lots of zeros in that estimate. You buying or looking to sell??

Sepp

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

Serial number says it was made in March 1964. Its number puts it in the same range as other basses we know about.

John Hall has shared before that the first batch of Rose Morris instruments went to the UK in March 64 - so it is likely from that first batch.

If it was sold in the US then it is a 4001S. If in the UK then a Rose Morris 1999. It is not a V63 or C64 - those are all designations of reissue basses.

As to what it is worth - well that is a loaded question.

More pics would be great.

Welcome to the RRF by the way - great first post!

[Kopfjaeger]

Like Brian said, more fotos would be very helpful. She looks to be in good shape. What type of case does she have? The early 4001's have a few trouble areas like the headstock angle as well as the neck angle. High tension strings really did a number on a lot of these instruments. The fotos you posted are great but more from various different sides would help us. How about under the pickguard?? I'd like to see the electronics. if un-messed with, I'd say you have quite a nice instrument and some would like to add to add to their collections.

Sepp

[lordblackmore]

That is NOT a c64 or V63. The serial # indicates that it's an 4001s or an RM19999.

My mistake. I didn't read the title as meaning 1964.

[bassduke49]

Indeed, this is a rare oldie. Back in early 1964, Rickenbacker hadn't even come up with an official designation for this model as most were destined to be exported to Rose Morris in England. Some also went to Australia. In the factory, basses such as this one were known as "4000+1" -- in other words, it was a new standard 4000 model (which usually has one Horseshoe pickup) that was routed out to take an additional pickup (the "Toaster Top"). This is the model or Rickenbacker bass played by the most famous Rick players: Paul McCartney and Chris Squire (who just died 6/27/15). The new "4001" designation had been reserved for only the deluxe two-pickup model with its distinctive checker binding and full-width "shark fin" triangular fingerboard inlays.

Pricing this is a tough call. Old instruments like this one are expected to show ware, so overall condition may not affect the collector price. Usually the better the condition, the higher the value when it comes to collectable Ricks, but with one this old, that may not be the case. I hesitate to establish a price, but a collector might be willing to pay between $5,000 and $15,000 (US dollars) depending on the provenance.

[fran4001]

Sweet! I wonder (if I owned it) if I could resist re-plating the chrome, or would I leave it as-is? Good thing I won't have to worry about that dilemma... lol

[Captain Bob]

Uh huh....Paul, do you think the serials back then were sequential or randomly applied? Squire's DC127, mine DC193, now DC 298..all in a month? As far as I know, those actuals have never been made known.

Hmmm.. Sand cast bridge, aluminum tailpiece and brass HS surround. The neck may be straight, but I would guess a negative neck angle looking at the present action, and the bridge.

I think it would make a nice restoration project.

Welcome home, jerzy!

[bassduke49]

Robert, I believe when they redid the serial numbering system in 1961 that the numerical portion represented a sequential for the year, and that would have been all instruments, not just basses. So less than 200 in a month is not unreasonable. At least that is what I understand.

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

Uh huh....Paul, do you think the serials back then were sequential or randomly applied? Squire's DC127, mine DC193, now DC 298..all in a month? As far as I know, those actuals have never been made known.

You are correct in that RIC does not release production numbers. John Hall has however let out a few tidbits of info here and on the RIC corporate forum about Rose Morris instruments. And quite a few other SNs have been collected in the data base here.

While there are the occasional anomalies = on the whole serial numbers are sequential in 1964. Starting at 001 in January DA and then going to 999 in DG July and then repeating from 001 in August DH and reaching at least DL 872 in December 64.

Serial number range for January DA is 001 to 105

Serial Number range for February is DB 114 to DB 151 - a relatively quiet month although as instruments took about 6 weeks from start to completion the wood shop was likely very busy even if not much was assembled in Feb 64.

Serial number range for DC (March 1964 is DC165 ish to DC336ish)

And April DD is 340 to 476.

There are a few odd numbers out - including Chris Squire's (which I am willing to bet is actually DC172 rather then 127. There seems to be a run of basses from 170 to 197 - that would make it fit right into the run.

The other one that is strange and out of sequence is DD 176 a 1999 bass in Spain. (Again I would bet there is an error in reading the jackplate and that the DD is actually a DC.

Just speculation mind you. But it makes sense to me anyway.

John Hall has shared that there were 5 sample instruments that went to Rose Morris in January 64. But that the actual order of retail instruments shipped to the UK in March.

[jerzy]

Some more pictures :

[jerzy]

Some innards now :

[fran4001]

Great stuff! Who made those pots? CTS? Odd looking. I THINK I see a 137 there....